(Talking PvE) The Devs never intended most sleep immune monsters to be used with OoO. It’s a bonus we’ve had that we probably shouldn’t have had, so ofc people wouldn’t complain there. PvE content is typically easy enough for most players who’ve been around a little while. We don’t need buffs and stuff for PvE to trivialise it when it’s already a good level of difficulty for people to enjoy.
Sorry your post does not follow. Nobody is asking for “buffs and stuff” for PVE. I’m just asking for it to stay the same.
You are asking for our monsters to be nerfed in PvE. You already stated that the challenge is good now. So why do you want it to be made harder?
BTW Dungeon challenge has become stupid these days with the amount of armor piercing monsters around. It basically luck of the draw to complete that event for over 90% of the player base. I believe top players had trouble with it last time. You want to make it harder.
(Replying to the poll thread)
As two heavy users and lovers of OoO it surprises me that we don’t see eye-to-eye on this. You see Oniblade double OoO as the issue but what about in the future when we get more sleep immune monsters, ones which combo so strongly with OoO that Stratu, Oni and any Epic OoO all become insanely powerful?
The challenge was good before OoO + sleep immunes. You’re not reading the bit of my argument where I say that the Devs didn’t design sleep immune monsters to be used with OoO, hence it’s like we’ve had a buff for them all this time. So far in the game if the Devs want to make a monster sleep immune to counter enemy sleep they’re also inadvertently buffing OoO in the process. That’s the problem they’ve had in designing these monsters.
Enemy monsters in PVE are getting stronger all the time. Many work under buffed conditions not as they were originally intended.
Some monsters are clearly designed for PvP. But when they are buffed it’s ridiculous.
That door swings both ways
Gyo can be stunned or disabled before he gets a turn. You can trust me when I tell you that without bunker, he really gets in trouble if theres a monster like saberzor who basically was available to everybody through the balancion event. Yeah, we can nerf every monsters until it is safe and smooth to deal with, but is that the goal? Yeah, you might lose one monster from gyo in an OoO FL but thats about it. Bunker gives you 110 seconds to get rid of shielded monster while 3 of your 4 monsters are sleeping. So you have most likely one shot to kill him. Then tell me which monster would be capable of doing that? Yeah, there are few, especially when you count the knockbackers in but its all al gamble in OoO. If you have the right monster awake you can get rid of every threat but in most you want have a monster of this kind available. Its much easier to put a monster below 70 % health then to kill a shielded monster in 110 seconds. On Top: If Bunker gets a turn most likely two monsters are dead which can really screw you over when your trying to get out of the double OoO of oni
I don’t remember seeing DC since this one
If you put Gyo below 70% health then it can heal and overconfident strike in just the same amount of time that Bunker takes to get its first kill. They’re both stunnable and slow-ish sweeping by themselves but Bunker is 180TU while Gyo is 130TU. The main difference is that Bunker can do two kills quickly at one point while Gyo has the much faster initial attack and can LSA if you kill a different monster from Gyo first (very easily set up if you use a protector). I feel like a slower initial attack is far less of an issue than what Gyo offers.
Anyway it’s a shame that we can’t all agree on this topic. I thought that we would agree which sleep immune monsters need altering. I need to go get a flight now. Like Dev_VKC said, I think it would be good for people to list the sleep immune monsters saying whether they think each one should be grade 1 or grade 2 so the Devs can read over it and use it to help them decide.
I didn’t see your edit adding this. I absolutely do not want to make DC harder. I made a thread suggesting to make it easier and have discussed that a couple of times both on the forum and with the Devs.
OoO must work as OoO … Scrap the whole sleep immune stuff and make even friendly monsters sleep like camo fix… Who cares about jackal or onyxia or whatever… Just end the madness please… These monsters be awake if enemy used OoO first…
PS : why do I even care when I quit already and lurking only the forum 
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That’s good to hear, but your suggested changes will inadvertently make it harder.
You quit?
Just nerf everything in your opinion, or there shouldn’t be any sleep immune?
I am saying this from a point of view of a player who doesnt own a OoO legend. Setting up OoO with an epic is challenge. I am happily accepting this challenge and as you know this is something I have been working on for months. Gyo is one of the few monsters that makes OoO viable for people who dont own a OoO legend and still are a great fan of the move and really love to build teams around it. As you said it we are both heavy users and lovers of OoO. I really spent a lot of money on this game over the years but I just accepted that I wont get a OoO. I am not bitter or anything as I always knew the small odds for getting one particular legendary and I always liked to support the devs with my money since they built a great game.
I probably could compensate many things but if Gyo gets nerfed again thats something that would be a really hard hit. Actually Bunker getting insomnia would be devastating too but seeing the bigger picture I accept that this combo is just too powerful to keep it, especially when Onis SS doesnt get changed. I agree on nerfing myself, and I made peace with the fact that I have to make changes to the team now that it actually was almost finished. And I even agree on starting from scratch again, when it is to the greater good of the game. But what I am asking for is a fair chance to do so. Not changing Gyo would be this fair chance and that is why I am asking you @Dev_VKC @Dev_BRD that Gyo can keep his full sleep immunity and isnt changed at all.
Ye I did. Logging occasionally
But didnt you just roll for Sakura?
Idk what the devs want, they create something like sleep immune everything is build this way & due to ONE secret skill we have to change 5-6 monsters passive.
Just give Oni ss 100 seconds restriction and problem will be solved but nope , we think it’s out duty to change stuff regularly , bring anarchy into whole community.
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I did . I got Sakura as well … but I dint get what I wanted… So I gave myself a break 
but evertale is going in wrong direction… So I might come back lol
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I might phrase it differently each time but I feel like there’s no need to give full sleep immunity to monsters unless there’s an interesting interaction that monster can have with OoO. Having too many viable sweepers with full sleep immunity is what’s resulted in this current issue, so we shouldn’t give out the passive to just any monster. The Devs originally designed most of them as a counter to sleep, not as a buff to OoO.
The problem has been building up for quite a while and became more mainstream after Christmas and New Year when people got their hands on sleep immune monsters (Gyomurai and Angelion).
@ItsSherlock
I completely understand your personal position. I’d love for you to have the two OoO legendaries so you could build stronger teams with the strategy. I think if you had them you may agree with a few more monsters getting full sleep immunity removed. I’m sorry for suggesting something that affects your team building negatively a lot.
I made a poll in another thread to collect some opinions on this question. Feel free to vote if you want to 
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