Monsters that need buffs (input needed)

Captain whiskers is one and xyz999 is also one i think

xyz999 speed is 80 ,ziber is 81…It is unstable and this is a awakening myth

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well cpt whiskers is one i know

Azrazel is another one. 78% speed so won’t out speed something like Ziberius but it doesn’t need to be built around quite so much now it has the fighting spirit passive.

Good idea though about a monster getting a passive that disables something like entrance passives. If it was designed to be a front line monster which is a little awkward to kill but not very good at doing stuff while on the field except for disabling entrances it could really help counter things like Motor/Bane/Celeshine 5th

Ok, so… my buff list is severely outdated now since I haven’t been around to update it… so I suppose pretty soon here I’m going to just start it over from scratch. Will probably be going off of @Killerdog’s tier list just to keep things simple and brisk. What would y’all consider a good cutoff between being viable and needing buffs? As KD said, anything B+ or above is more than capable of pulling their weight in the right scenario, so should I consider everything below that candidates for buffs? Or should it just be D and C? Because Storm/hunter, Midas and Chronozeros certainly have potential too. Is it just that it’s not enough?

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I was thinking about something that cancels all passives on the field, including ally. That also means it cant be protected by ap’s and can be killed quite easily

A few of the higher tier monsters would benefit lots from tweaking. While they’re good, they aren’t very smooth at using their moveset. Can’t think of a perfect example right now but I’m sure you’ll spot a small number of high tier monsters which you’d like to suggest something for even if it’s not a “buff”.

Also, bear in mind some low tier monsters simply aren’t good for a certain bit of content. So something like Doomengine shouldn’t get a buff for PvP… just focus on making it good enough for PvE (which to be honest it is already). The focus should be on monsters which are low tier in both lists I think.

Would love to see it.

Im trying so hard to not argue with anyone and stay positive but, what the hell is this? Smh…

Sorry if that one is a big opinion for you. I know a lot of people would disagree. I’m of the mind that monsters are designed with specific uses intended and some have no or limited use outside of that. A monster like Doomengine is for PvE use where the very high damage can take out almost all monsters in PvE and the duplicating + shield entrance is something the AI struggles to deal with. It would need a huge re-work to be viable in PvP.

I don’t seem to have that same “monsters should find their place and stick with it” mindset as you do. I’d personally love to see Doomengine find a use in pvp, since he’s so unique and in theory could be a surprising threat that many parts of today’s meta may not be prepared for. Monsters like Aurodragon, Atrahasis and Delugazar have a very real presence in pvp while retaining a large niche in pve, similarly to doom. Why should we let some monsters have both, and tell others to settle for only one?

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I’ll go ahead and start up the list of monsters that NO one’s gonna disagree with: GF/Dragaia, Warca/Bazilogon, Burnsalot, Polareon, Kamiwyrm, Tridrakhan, Solariel, and Rexotyrant. We can just go on adding names from there I suppose. I’m also wondering if I should continue including SEs too… they might be harder to get a feel for, plus I doubt KD spends as much time on the SE list as the legend one, which means it may not be accurate/up to date enough to rely on.

(disclaimer: this isn’t me faulting you for keeping priorities in order KD. I totally understand if you aren’t quite as devoted to the SE list. If you do put plenty of time in then I suppose my assumption is incorrect.)

I would add Emeraldont, Terragar, Chronozeros, Metatherion, Skeleviathan and Prismpaw to the list and remove Warca/Bazilogon (both are very good for PvE content and they work in lower bracket PvP).

Proposed suggestions for a few:
Tridrakhan - change ultrablaze into exit plan, add poison gambit as a passive
Emeraldont - change throw into “momentum throw” (powers up with each use)
Terragar - change stats to have 5150 atk, 3950 def (more attack so throw and double survivor are great)
Chronozeros - something, but part of it being a speed increase
Skeleviathan - needs a way to create something at the back of the team to devour, SS change?

The SE tier list is given as much attention as the legendary list and don’t worry no offence taken. SEs are much simpler so I feel like it’s actually more accurate than the legendary list at any given time. I don’t need to do many changes to it, especially with regards to PvE where it’s usually quite obvious how useful a new SE will be there. It would be cool if you could suggest buffs to a few SEs that really need it.

Your suggestion to increase Chrono’s speed amuses me greatly lol. I don’t think you were around at the time… on release his speed was 61, and for 2 whole pvps the meta was completely devastated by it. Like, it was even worse than AP spam. Chronos on every FL, whoever’s Faststrike came out first basically decided the whole game. Only real counter was aegis, who was significantly less accessible back then. In today’s meta, though… I think it’d be quite par for the course lol. Sounds like a good change for sure.

I had no idea emeraldont of all things was underpowered… I think to this day he’s the only stun absorber that’s not weak to a single killer move, or any other conditional critical attack. Plus he punishes the enemy for leaving him alone by supplying rocks for his teammates to use. Is it just that he’s too easy to get rid of, or that the value he provides while on the field simply isn’t enough?

Yeah, death sentence on a protector really makes no sense at all. As soon as you hit protect, you require the enemy to either kill or KB him before doing anything else, both of which nullify the DS. The only reason it hasn’t been a problem for Stag is that he gets by absolutely fine without it. Plus it’s possible to focus on other mons while leaving him alive.

Tri and Terra changes sound good. Btw I think the reason I made that assumption was due to how badly Buck neglected his SE list. He added new SEs, but never changed the list around unless it was something significant.

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I was around back then and remember it well. The game wasn’t ready for it. In your time away from the game there have been various buff mentions for Chronozeros and the most common suggestion is to buff its speed again. Now that we have higher speed monsters which can kill on their first turn without a restricted condition Chronozeros would not be broken in this way. I’m glad you like the idea, it didn’t come from me!

The thing with Emeraldont is the weakness of stun absorber as proper stun protection. It was popular in the past but in reality isn’t very effective. The rocks gained while it’s sat on the field is not enough benefit that it can be left stunned. If it isn’t stunned then its ability to shield an ally is weak, the switch friend is extremely situational (undoes knockback - a counter to throw teams), reckless attack is weak with the low attack and throw is also weak for the same reason. Swift dual throw is cool and the monster is clearly designed as tanky support for throw teams so I don’t think it should have more attack or to be given huge aggression. However, a small tweak so the throw move becomes very powerful if Emeraldont gets to use it multiple times would help it have a chance to kill things.

Buckingham tried his best but he didn’t have the time to manage the tier list properly. I think he would’ve done a much better job if he put more time into it. Every time I do an update I make sure I spend at least 10 minutes looking over each of the four lists to spot anything which might seem out of place. I still miss things of course!

He is obviously more unstable. His speed is only 78. My suggestion is just to prevent some players from stuffing four bronzesshells in the support position at the beginning of the battle. To be honest, this strategy is very effective.By the way, this is the same effect as the geo+motor long long ago.

I like the terra buff, he’s a monster I’ve tried to find a good way to use but struggle to, other than him being a budget baha…

Why not make Emeraldont or some other throw mom with a crescendo throw type move? It starts out weak, 2-3k damage and increases in damage with each successive throw used.

That’s your list of legendaries . Sneaky !

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youre comparing zib motor into pre nerf geo motor… First of all, 4 shells in a row were far worse than what it is now. Shells used to have 100 tu lifeflip, no insomnia and worst of all, no broken heart. That pretty much meant a 100% guaranteed stun lock

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Prisma need stun immu and Lunartic change knock back to knock random