Monsters that need buffs (input needed)

As we all know there’s an abundance of tragically lackluster monsters that exist just to take up space in our benches, and desperately need some attention. Not just legends either; there’s plenty of garbage event SEs as well that definitely had potential, but have been completely left out in the cold. While some do have the occasional opportunity to help out(Canis and Molten for the gatekeepers), I feel like they all should be given a chance to shine in pvp. If all of these monsters were able to put up a serious fight in pvp, just imagine how much more diversity there would be. I know there’s a tier list already, but I decided to make this topic for the devs’ convenience, so they can view in a single list all of the top player’s professional insight on how to fix up these monsters the right way. All the underpowered monsters are alphabetically listed below, and for each one I’ve put down what I judge to be their biggest weaknesses. The solutions list will start out empty, but I’ll fill them in later as suggestions come in, and also drop in a few of my own. If you have any ideas on how to make these guys workable or you think something needs to be changed, go ahead and post.

Here are my rules for making suggestions. I’d just appreciate it if everyone followed them to the best of their ability, it’ll just make life way easier for me.

1- Take the primary weakness into consideration before suggesting. Picking a move to boost at random is unlikely to make a real impact on the monster’s worth.

2- Don’t suggest anything OP. Try to consider what impact your change would really have, and decide if it’s too much. It helps to consider it from the opponent’s point of view.

3- If you suggest a new active skill or a third passive skill, you must choose an existing skill to be replaced by it. Obviously.

4- Don’t suggest anything that is already listed right down here. It’s fine to argue for or against them, just don’t repeat the same thing over and over. Doesn’t take very long to just pull up the monster in question and check out what’s already there. It might even help you come up with something good for that monster to have.

5- Don’t suggest anything for monsters that aren’t on the list. If a monster is not on the list, that typically means it does not need a buff. If you’d like, we can help you use your monster more effectively, just please ask in a different topic.

6- This one isn’t really a rule, but it would be great if you could try to help out the monsters that have much fewer suggestions than the others. They should all be given a fair chance to improve.

7- Don’t suggest ideas for nerfs. This is a thread about buffs, nerf suggestions will have to go somewhere else.

Slight tweaks
Albakhan

The problem:

  • Useless without any tanks or stealth, SS is also useless

Solutions-

  • Replace Dual poison drain with Dual Poison Eater(time restricted) or Dual Poison Siphon
Cyclozar

The problem:

  • Cannot reliably kill Chromera, Leogeist or Mechaviathan, among others

Solutions-

  • Increase attack stat, or just make the moves hit harder
Prismaryx

The problem:

  • STILL not enough damage on Dual Slayerbane or Slayerbane All

Solutions-

  • Increase damage on Dual Slayerbane
Major modifications
Cosmodragon/Nebelronix

Problems-

  • Too slow
  • Death Revenge is their only kill option, and it’s not enough
  • Risky Heal is a liability more than anything(Nebel only)

Solutions-

  • Increase speed stat
Cryokaizer/Sanctallion

Problems-

  • Assisted Wave/Nova is not viable
  • Nowhere near enough time on the frontline to get either support move off
  • Vulnerable to auto poisoners
  • Risky Heal is a liability more than anything

Solutions-

  • Lower the TU of Assisted Wave/Nova to 130-160
  • Increase the damage on Assisted Wave/Nova
  • Add Stun Immunity
  • Upgrade to Blood Clone Next
  • Upgrade to Instant Attack Boost
  • Upgrade to Link Heal
Caniswyrm

Problems-

  • Too slow
  • Too easy to kill

Solutions-

  • Increase speed stat
  • Add Roaring entrance
  • Add Stun immunity
  • Add Hold Ground
  • Add Shield Entrance
Cryogolem

Problems-

  • Literally Lordsreign but without overwatch or KBN

Solutions-

  • Replace Fury mode with Camouflage
  • Replace Wave with HP sharing/Purify
Devilborg

Problems-

  • Too slow
  • No defensive passives
  • Vulnerable to Timestrike

Solutions-

  • Lower the TU of summon minions to 200
  • Increase speed stat
  • Add Hold ground
  • Add Poison immune
The Godfeather/Dragaia

Problems-

  • Assist Thunder/Quake is not viable
  • Last bite is completely useless in pvp

Solutions-

  • Secret skill- Backstab(50), OTU
  • Allow Last Bite to be used non critically
  • Lower the TU of Assisted Thunder/Quake to 130-160
  • Increase the damage on Assisted Thunder/Quake and/or reduce TU
  • Secret skill- Link Attack Boost All(50)
Hiberzor

Problems-

  • Sleep roulette is extremely risky
  • Sweet dreams is not only useless, it’s a liability

Solutions-

  • Make Sweet dreams wake up the targeted ally(possibly some other beneficial effects too)
  • Make Sleep Roulette unable to put Hiberzor to sleep(NOT the same as sleep immune)
  • Lower the TU of Sleep Roulette to 50
  • Lower the TU of Sweet dreams to 50
Lunalord

Problems-

  • Too slow
  • Takes far to long to gain full effect
  • Clones make easy kills
  • Vulnerable to auto poisoners

Solutions-

  • Upgrade to Blood clone next
  • Increase speed stat
  • Upgrade to a single use heal or Healing light
  • Upgrade to Shield enterance
  • Add Stun immunity
Moltenpede

Problems-

  • No real means of offense

Solutions-

  • Replace Zealous attack with Confident strike(lower speed slightly to balance out)
  • Upgrade to Desperate bite
Ogremaster

Problems-

  • Has no utilization besides lackluster opening stealth combos
  • Way too easy to kill

Solutions-

  • Increase damage on Retribution
  • Upgrade to Stealth All
  • Upgrade to assisted attacks
  • Add stun/death/sleep revenge
Rattlewyrm

Problems-

  • Stealth is hard to maintain
  • TU is too high

Solutions-

  • Lower the TU of Sneak attack to 100-130
  • Add Stealthy entrance
  • Add Excessive Force
Rexotyrant/Kamishogun

Problems-

  • Too easy to kill
  • Sudden Death is extremely unreliable
  • Inferior to Revenarchion and other sweepers

Solutions-

  • Replace Sudden Death with Accelerate or Cannibalize/Backstab
  • Lower the TU of Bloodfury to 50-70
  • Add Stun Immunity
  • Make Sudden Death unable to hit the user
Snowhulk

Problems-

  • No real means of offense without relying on a 50-50 chance
  • Reckless and Zealous are redundant
  • Rebuild is pathetic

Solutions-

  • Add Excessive force
  • Replace Reckless attack with Confident/Revenant strike
  • Lower the TU of Rebuild to 50
  • Upgrade Rebuild to 50% heal
Sunlord

Problems-

  • Takes far too long to launch a single attack

Solutions-

  • Lower the TU of all mortar moves(50-70 load, 100-130 hellblast/stun)
  • Upgrade to double hellblast/stun
  • Add Stun Immunity
Virabbit

Problems-

  • Doesn’t really do anything
  • Overwatch is pointless if you can’t really retaliate
  • Healing is highly ineffective in the one shot heavy meta

Solutions-

  • Upgrade to Risky heal all
  • Replace bolt with Purify
  • Replace bolt with Infect(50 TU, gains control of the targeted enemy for one turn

I’d say that Camouflage for Baz/Warca could be an interesting​ solution. Also poison immunity for cosmo and nebel

1 Like

I dunno if Chronotitan, Geartyrant and Polareon should be in the list. If you’re talking based on PvP utility you have to include last biters as well. Btw I like the post

Most of these are legit but I get the feeling it’s falling on deaf ears, we’ve been saying this for months.

Good post :wink:
I would sujest
warca /bazil_camouflage and summon entrance… stealth changed for other move maybe stealth teammate or stun blitz
Kami/rexo_ stun immun and sudden death changed to stun pulse
Cryogolen_gigasplash changed to purify
Canis stun immun_and element eradicate changed to Aoe
Nebel/cosmo_poison immun
Wolfrozor_double energy blast and energy charge heals him a bit…life flip changed to desperate bite
Shinobi_retreat changed to pull back or step back :smiley:

Summon entrance is not a good idea. Warca wants to be on the frontline. Summon entrance gives conflict of interest. Just remove the sacrifice cost on warca/Bazilogon.
Tyler says that bloodclone next is pretty much locked in for nebel/cosmo.

To be honest it feels like we’d all be better off if the move clone next never existed. It’s horribly inferior to blood clone next, and it’s just causing problems all over the place. I think the only mon that can probably keep it is Torrentide since he’s safe from auto poison. Still easy blood fodder though.

For hellfox just allow rebirth to trigger without needing a kill, and perhaps lower his speed a little in return. Let him be the combo enabler he could have been.

For dolphin just give him timestrike all instead of protect killer, makes him a LOT more of a threat.

Give oakthulu toxic entrance maybe? Or poison storm. 

For deathgazer just up it to 100

Give Bolvicus stealth all. That way he can set up stealth and then deathmatch without hurting your own team. Plus unless you set him up he’s easy to break down, so he’s basically the same except with more reward for the risk.

Actually I’m pretty sure rebirth is restricted to after 100 seconds, not 1 kill, but yeah, added.
Personally I kinda feel like TSA should be exclusively a chronozeros thing, but I’ll add it anyway because that would be insane for dolph.
Oakthulhu would definitely benefit from another poison option, but the problem is that there’s no room left for it in his moveset. I incorporated them to the best of my ability, changed to quick storm too. Actually, I just realized that if he gets toxic entrance then HG will become useless, so I think that’s a no go.
Unfortunately stealth effects don’t prevent damage caused by allies, I’ve seen boxjaw explosions damage stealthed allies. So stealth isn’t going to save allies from DMM. Stealth all does sound great though, at 98 speed that’s got enormous potential. Though one problem is that Bolv’s moveset isn’t very flexible, none of his existing moves seem to be ideal for replacement. I went ahead and put it down for the aoe, but it still doesn’t quite feel right.

Well if were doing this we should also nerf Deo, Asap, cause nearly every 900 plus pvp team uses him in the FL. He dosent need strategy, you put put him and get one guaranteed blast

Don’t bring nerf discussions into the buff discussion thread.

It’s 1 kill.

Shadowyrm/Kamiwyrm are missing. Sanctistag + aegisdragon dictates that they get excessive force.

IMO…Ive tried using purifying mists, then deathmatch mode but still my team got their HP to 1, tried several times… :expressionless:

NO MORE CAMO pls. like seriously 3 camos is enoug

I know cosmo/nebel needs buff but this ways(immune to poison and blood cron next) you will kill one monster with every dupe of him,since they can protect its not a good idea,making them a bit op in revenge.if you want to do this,then must change the death revenge of them too,something like puff and ryno.
About Auro/bovol/jingle/polar suggestion is OK.that will make sense.
For valza,he needs bloodfurry guys.only this way he can be real sweeper.Jingle can easily heal Himself but not this guy.
About warca/bazil I know what’s the feels that you have a LEG that useless as SE,but not this way.this way he will be a bit op.both camouflage and secret skill will make him a bit too op.choose one and forget the secound. I think camouflage would be good choice but we can do something new to him.for ex why not changing nova to 300 sec and give him another move instead of stealth?we need to be careful,otherwise he will be op,with protection aside him and camouflage on him,he will do 400 very soon and … .
Oak is not that bad so you want to buff him this way.toxic is the only thing bane has so he be the unique,other wise bane will Nerf,imagine oak will be better than bane and volco has secret skill and double pision eater too,bane would get bad state then.the only thing makes all of us accept bane as slow monster with high TU is toxic entrance.
About SE,we all want every monster we have be best but if wolf get double blast or healing,since Kong got nerf last update,you will replace Kong with wolf on bench.we need to give wolf a chance but not this way,this is too op
F2P Arash

Camouflage is actually a good thing to have. We have a lot of monsters that kill 2-4 monsters at a time causing little counterplay. More camouflage = less deodragon in front.

My monster changes list if I could design one myself:

Valsareign:

  • Increase confident strike damage, reduce time to 130.
  • 4520 attack and defense(tridrakhan attack/defense)
  • Poison drain puts a shield on Valsareign

Nebelronix/Cosmodragon:
-Blood clone next(replace create duplicate)
-Auto protect
-Replace protect teammates with retribution
-Step back(replace switch places)
-Secret skill clone next
-Replace death revenge with payback revenge(to allow counterplay to all the nebel/cosmo dupes)

Atrahasis:
-Replace cannibalize with heal next(100 seconds)
-Buff speed to 60%

Aurodragon:
-Reduce reincarnation chance back down to 33%
-Make reincarnation create full health reincarnations.
-Replace stealth teammate with bloodcrave
-Replace heal rearguard with reusable switch ally.

Warca/Bazilogon:
-Remove sacrifice cost on novablast
-Add camouflage
-Replace stealth with stealth all
-Add hold ground

Rexotyrant/Kamishogun:
-Replace sudden death with Stun pulse
-Add unwanted revenge(adds 1 bronzeshell next in line to the enemy when this monster dies)
-Add stun immunity
-Add secret skill Stun blast(ignores stun absorb, stun counter, and protecting skills. 70TU, stun for 200 secs)

Shadowyrm/Kamiwyrm:
-Add excessive force

Bovulcus:
-Cannot deathmatch mode allies if they are stealthed.

Hellfox:
-Sudden death cannot hit allies
-Speed down to 40%

Deathgazer:
-Poison massecre damage upped a little bit
-Poison storm TU down to 100
-Fast forward Entrance amount up to 70

Oakthulu:
-Survivor time to charge reduced to 200

Cryokaiser/Sanctallion:
-Reduce assisted time to 200
-Clone next to blood clone next
-Replace risky heal with Heal ally(one use only)

Polareon:
-Nightmares grip doesn’t need the target to be sleeping to work, increase time to 130 seconds, rename the move to Living Nightmare.
-Remove dreamy entrance
-Replace bloodcrave with Give turn
-Add hold ground
-Add bloodthirst for step back

Prismaryx:
-Replace life flip friend with accelerate team
-Speed to 70%
-Reduce defense to 3000

Jingledragon:
-Dual confident strike damage increased to the amount bloodthirst deals when Jingle is at full health
-Dual confident strike damage rescaled to fit the new damage cap for the move.

Chronotitan:
-Increase speed to 90%
-Desperate bite heal amount increased to 200% of the damage dealt.

Geartyrant:
-Auto death sentence replaced with auto deathmark
-Replace bloodfury with bloodthirst

Some of these might be a little bit(or a lot) over the top, but these are the things I would like to see.

I think bolvicus could use hold ground really.

Jingledragon needs to have ultrablaze replaced with bloodthirst, it needs to still have the power to sweep even at low hp. Setting up DCS is already troublesome so I think it deserves to have access to bloodthirst that will replace Ultrablaze and lower TU of DCS to 150 or 160. :3

I really want geartyrant so bad… It will added passive-offense in my FL (so far i have Omegasdragon, Galliodragon, Mechaviatan, and Chronozar)

Some monsters are ment for PvE some for PvP, that’s why this list isn’t conclusively. But most ideas are good though.

The only way to nullify it currently is risky heal all really.
Maybe something like shield all? Although I think DMM goes through Shields as well…

Also I can say from experience that unless auro’s reincarnation rate is 100% he will never be viable, aside from the throw issue his main concern is just that he’s not consistent enough to build around