Please weaken the secret skill of canishogun - underdog, the speed of canishogun is 95, the strategy of canish is quite rampant at low level, I think this destroys the ecology to a certain extent, and prevents the novice’s thinking ability, it is too op in low level pvp.
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I do not mind too much about this combo because 1: Green Turtle Se max 9 speed will be faster than Dog, 2: megalo with sonic strike easily kill dog, 3: there is too much fl camuflage
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Just unpot the turtle.
There are only about 4 camouflage monsters.
Agree doodooshark destroys the cani strategy
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Black titan also gives one free kill with his entrance passive
Low-level players who don’t have canish are helpless in this strategy.
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I disagree. It’s his main play.
Low level players are helpless against most strategies anyway? For example Scorpiogeist Pumpking Bane combo can wipe half of your team before you can do anything. So should we nerf that too?
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Many things are balanced for the top bracket of PvP and can be used to completely destroy players with weaker teams in the lower brackets. I’ve made a number of control teams that when I go against a weak player they get no more than two turns over the whole battle!
However, I do think there’s a point to be made when it’s one monster alone that can bring a strategy to the table that the weaker teams can’t deal with. There are a few possible: Delugazar + AP spam (not as much any more), other great sweepers with AP spam, Canishogun + fast assisted epics, Geomagnus + stunners, Grovodeus (pre-nerf), Voidress + Sancta/Cryo. More generally speaking any fast and aggressive front line that doesn’t go all-in on high TU moves destroys weaker teams and ones that abuse teams without good stun protection (a big thing separating lower brackets and the good teams in the top bracket is having effective stun protection).
Naturally I think a few monsters will always be better for lower bracket PvP, if they require less to reach their full potential. Canishogun is one of the best for sure. However, it is more balanced up in the top bracket. If someone can think of a genius way to nerf it for lower brackets but not the top bracket that would be good.
Nerf its speed and change retribution to double retribution and lower the summoning rocks to 50tu
60-75 sounds good for his speed.
That would make it lose a lot of what makes it unique (buffing the 0-4* monsters before the enemy team gets to hurt them) and hugely buff the rest of its moveset. Stun converter + piercing double retribution that it can much more easily use on its first turn then piercing bloodthirst immediately charged.
A similar-ish nerf suggestion that doesn’t include the big buff would be:
- Restriction on underdog for the first 50s of a battle and lower the TU from 70 -> 30.
That ruins the front lines with Canishogun but compensates by making it stronger for the mid-game. If someone wants to use Canishogun front line they’ll be forced to use a 130/160TU move or to skip by ~15-20s before using underdog.
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Ok look… if anything about canis is gonna get nerfed, it needs to be double counter strike. That move is disgustingly unfair imo, heavily punishing the opponent for something that no absolutely no means deserves to be punished. What’s crazy is not only does it have access to the ability to pierce, but it doesn’t even need piercing in order to kill basically 100% of the time. I’ve both dealt and received it, up to 4-6 kills in a row… every time it just felt downright unearned.
Underdog doesn’t feel that bad tbh, the double starter front is annoying as hell especially with unevolved lago, but from my experience it burns out very quickly after killing 4-6 mons, and leaves itself wide open to retaliation. Heavily countered by repulse, not to mention when there’s a fire type canis is forced to make a hard decision between securing 2 quick kills and buffing its allies, and in the event that dcs seems preferable you’ll still end up leaving the two epics to sit there uselessly. Otherwise, you’re just kinda barred off from the ability to snag 2 immediate kills.
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I dont know what tier your playing at but double counter strike is his weakest skill.
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Your second paragraph shows why Canis is good as is and shouldn’t be touched. If you want to use DCS, you often need to sacrifice your strategy with Epics and your opponent will easily wipe them or leave them as dead weight.
Actually I regret liking the opening post. I would keep him as is. Lower tier players gotta except they will struggle against certain monsters.
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Agree. Canni is fine. Wish I had him on my main acct, but hes no cheat code on my second acct.
I remember when he was supposed to have stun counter. Canni and void are the reason i dont have onigeist or tort.
A lotta monsters need nerfing before him.
This obsession you have over monsters “earning” their kills is downright baffling. not to mention nonsensical. While on the surface Double Counter Strike makes things unearned, the exact same argument can be made for several other monsters. Here, I’ll show you.
“Defang punishes players for running poison monsters, which doesn’t deserve to be punished.”
“Nightwatch punishes players for running sleep monsters, which doesn’t deserve to be punished.”
“Double Piercing Blow deals critical damage to two monsters, which is unfair despite dealing massive, if not lethal damage back to the user.”
I could go on, but I think I’ve made my point.
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I gotta say - assassinate makes sense because its a way around protectors.
But defang, nightwatch and double counterstrike actually dont make any sense.
Here’s why:
Protect exists to keep you from getting to your target.
Assassinate exists as a way of bypassing the game mechanic, protect.
Sleepers, poisoners or [fire] element monsters don’t [necessarily] prevent you from killing your target.
Sleep killer, toxic killer, stun killer, single counter strike all act as critical moves that aren’t designed intrinsically as a counter to a block.
Therefore none of the double make as much sense as a necessary component of the game as assassinate.
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Now that you make that point, I can see the same argument being made for nightwatch, defang and time up. And well, let’s just say I’ve already spoken plenty on double piercing 
It’s just that imo, punishing specific strategies isn’t as egregious as punishing specific elements that have very little significant correlation with any specific strategy or playstyle. What is egregious to me about all these double moves is the fact that they kill so reliably when one of the targets doesn’t even fulfill the punishable condition. At the very least, I feel they should be like, barely reaching the critical damage threshold if they only have one target. That way the punish that it’s meant to be doing is at least more consistent.
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Phantom does make a fair point @Lucrayzor
Devs decided to buff/double critical attack moves a long time ago. “Time is up” is another one. If we start basing nerfs on whether the monster earnt it’s kill we need to change it across the board.
I get your point but it’s a part of the game now.
It’s not limited to killer moves as well.
Deathgazers entrance passive is an example I can think of that is a move that isn’t earnt but has a devastating effect just by entering the field.
You can just put him anywhere besides the FL and get some good value.
I don’t necessarily have a problem with there being some amount of unearned reward here and there(could cite don rilla for example), it only bothers me when it opens up truly game changing stuff like killing 2 enemies at once for free. Gazer’s passives is strong for sure, but I suppose it doesn’t always sway the game, ex. if his allies’ TUs are simply too high or if they’re asleep. Idk, maybe he is on the same level as canis. I confess that not all of my statements are necessarily fully informed.