Unpopular opinion

As you all know, there 3 amazing monsters that use second wind (probably more but these 3 are the most opressive): Dusicyon, Valzareign, and jingledragon.
Now, I know some will say it is balanced but how do you counter that effect? How? Unless you straight away kill that monster, you are stuck with a monster that chomp through your team with no skill. In a perfect situation, we damage those confident strike guys so we can immobalise thag skill if second wind wasn’t so broken.

IMO, this skill should either cost 30 seconds or more (no more than 70 honestly) or changed with meditation.

I’m not creating this discussion to complain and whine unnecessarily but invoke a conversation about these 1 hit killing skills that doesn’t require setup. Thank you for reading.

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Valza doesn’t have second wind

Stratus, Duscy and jingle have (I know it has a different name on jingle and duscy)

Since the damage of confident strike only gets the critical boost if they are on full hp it’s very easy to keep them in a damage range where they are annoying but not a threat to your team.

Second wind has always been a controversy around Stratus, still I think it matches the moveset quite well. You have 320 seconds to shut it down so second wind is not the issue that’s causing you troubles with Stratus

Oh yeah my bad. That is why he isn’t as opressive as when I was thinking of him to write this post. Stratus is okey I think. The monster itself is super good at times and not really in some cases so he is balanced for that reaso but jingle boy and oprah of the shield is just uncountrable which makes it a badly desinged monster IMO.

Duscy is very good but that’s the reason he is an S+ legend

I think the longer you play the less problems you have with jingle. He’s a very well designed legend but not a problem at all

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As I said before, the problem is the second wind is so free that you can punish/counter these monsters. I have no problem with a loaded powerful monsters but there has to be a counter or else it is plain a*s play it or lose situation.

Poison still completely counters the second wind on Dusicyon and Jingledragon. Also, it’s sometimes possible to skip behind with one monster if you have a second monster with a turn and the Jingledragon is next… therefore catching Jingle right after he uses second wind. I think the thing is that a monster like Jingledragon needs a free way to use dual confident strike once otherwise it wouldn’t be very strong. It’s got a 70TU healing move but that’s very easy to counter and after that’s been used two times Jingle probably becomes a useless monster on the field.

Dusicyon is an amazing monster that doesn’t really need second wind. However, it’s a great buff at the expense of +3 to the monster cost.

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Not opressive

Dusicyon’s shield field is more difficult to deal with, and is more the reason that the monster is strong, then second wind is.

How would he be useless if I am forcing the monster to heal by wasting my another monster? That would mean 2 monsters negate each other until one person comes with a monster that breaks the cycle. I think that is totally fair and still very strong. Not to mention the amount of protection there are or just the other scary options to deal with like delugazar. (Hopefully I didn’t misspell him)

It’s called deal with another threat and wait on dealing with that monster.

When you whack a second wind monster and let it second wind, you might as well have not have used the move at all. Therefore use the move where it can count, rather on something where it won’t have any effect other than making them burn the secret skill.

Second wind is also 1 use only.

You better listen coz second wind monsters are easy to deal with unless you’re talking about pve and your monster lineups are weak

That’s a very good point for @dragonkingOES. While second wind is very strong and can make it very hard to stop a monster like Jingledragon or Dusicyon from doing a full HP confident strike on their first turn you basically don’t attack them with a one-shot move if you can’t kill them before they second wind. When there is an opening that you can kill them off in you go for it. Sometimes things line up perfectly and you can kill them before their first turn but otherwise you’re looking at a 100s+ window to get hits in on them.

Something that would be more of a problem would be if they had the passive “auto second wind” which triggers the first time they get put to 1HP. Now THAT would be a bit more annoying to deal with as it means they take an extra attack for sure unless you can attack them with a piercing move.

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Pretty sure it’s “Second Wind” on all the three of them.

“You better listen up boy before I beat yo as*” what a contructive way of pouring your thoughts onto the keyboard.

@Killerdog thank you for actually putting an effort to make a discussion!
Also, it is still a problem in my opinion for a support monster like ducy who can also be a sweeper that has no counter it. Really unnecessarily strong imo.

Dusicyon has low attack, so while it can one-shot if it’s at 100% health the confident strike damage is terrible as soon as it’s below. I find that if you hit the Dusicyon down just a little bit (to 80-90%) that people will often use second wind to get that powerful confident strike off once. After it’s used you can put Dusicyon down to ~20% health and it will have a hard time trying to heal itself. Each time it gets close to full hit it back down to low health. It is more possible to turn Dusicyon into a liability than you think.

However, the problem of course is the shielding allies so I recommend that only if you’re using piercing moves or have an auto-poisoner.

This bit goes to you mentioning “no counter”. Auto-poison is an incredibly hard counter to Dusicyon, especially since the change that means shields get broken as soon as the first poison tick happens. If you have an auto-poisoner out on the field you can both ignore Dusicyon (it will forever be stuck using weak confident strikes) and the shields it creates do practically nothing at all. For such an incredibly powerful monster it’s rare to see it with a counter that completely disables it.

Oakthulhu would be my auto-poisoner for choice. It’s my choice for practically all auto-poison needs but it’s because the dual poison siphon will heal it, making it incredibly hard for the opponent to kill and let their Dusicyon work again.

I was talking about how there is no way to kill her except with another confident strike or light bane. That is why I was talking about no counter. There is no “killer shield” or “killer ignorance”(to kill monsters with confident strike. That is why monsters like thst have no counter. Both ducy and jingle. In terms of poison, if you are playing a poison team, you should honestly just unless you go against thst one person who built their whole team to destroy the hopes and dreams of the poison players.
Also, ducy can always just wait behind a good auto protect team and can just use leech which isn’t so high of TU to do. Nothing ever that monster ever does makes her slow. Again, she is supposed to make sure she is not killable. Confident strike and the whole team behind ensures her protection imo.

Right, I get you. It’s true that there’s no killer move but poison is widely available as well as piercing moves becoming more common, both of which heavily counter it. So effectively they’re the equivalent of a killer move. I actually recently designed a mythic which is a counter to shields called “Ramurupture” (you can search for it if you want).

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Shield field is never a liability.

You’re misquoting me a little bit there :stuck_out_tongue:

With auto-poison on the field then Dusicyon becomes a bit of a liability. The shields aren’t working, it’s possible to stun and all it can do is mediocre damage at regular intervals. However, the shield field itself is obviously amazingly strong and there is no downside to having it.

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Noob