Thoughts on the AP changes

Neo Monsters
1

I believe the devs did a great job of dealing with APs and that it’s not actually overkill, it simply prevents the abuse of AP RNG targeting and AP spam. If you look at the changes you’ll see why.

Twiggy / Guardian execute

Twiggy simply prevents abuse. If you’re not abusing protectors, it will get one kill and then sit there all game. If it starts to charge, you can even kill it, knowing it’s going to come back in and still be deadweight. Because of its linear purpose, very few top players run twiggy. It’s a strong counter to the abuse and deadweight otherwise. Losing a single protector will not cause too much problems.

Protect killer/ Assassinate targeting

This is one the community wanted. Removing this RNG aspect of the game is a perfect way to allow a Hard counter, which ALREADY existed to fulfil its intended purpose. A hard counter should stop APs.

Raw moves and True hit bypassing protectors.

So the raw/ true hit monster can hit whoever it wants. Guess what, for that to work it means the enemy has no protectors, so you can hit whoever you want too. :man_shrugging:t2: Sounds even right?

Yet any Non- raw/ true hit monsters will still be forced to target the protector, so that player is still more restricted than the one with the protector, who has free reign to target whoever they want. True hit’s high TU gives true hit a big drawback. A protector is handy to have, even if the enemy has a raw or true hit monster. Nothing stops you from taking it out.

Sneak attack bypassing protectors

Stealth starts are so risky to play due to its easy counters such as poison, that it needs serious advantages to consider running. This being one of them is a nice, logical buff.

To conclude

Protectors are not dead. The changes made prevent abuse of APs, but don’t rule them out altogether. Are you going to get hammered for running one protector in the FL. Not really.

  • Target the Raw mon that bypassed it.
  • Simply leave Twiggy there now and enjoy the 4 on 3.
  • Let the Truehit mon sit there for 120 tu and then take it out.
  • Protect killer? If you were relying on RNG to hit the wrong protector before you deserve to lose. Don’t forget that Truehit and PK / assassinate are HARD COUNTERS. Everything will naturally have a hard counter and that’s balance for you.

The spam was stopped, but protectors are far from dead. I’m sure the excellent players who ran AP spam will bounce back, just like those who bounced back from the team turn nerf and every nerf that has come before it. :blush:

5 Likes
2

It was a little overkill. All they really needed to do was make them targetable.

1 Like
3

1-His move should only target Super epics and lower its crazy how he can one shot the mythic and legendary protectors.

2- Protect killer targeting what ever protector you want fine no big deal here but Ap+ and protect teammate should die first. When ever two protectors with the same rate you get to choose.

3- Raw bypassing: thats the stupidest thing the game had done not to mention their low tu moves which grant them advantage already and the higher damage.

All they had to do was fix the rng when two protectors with similar protect rate are in play the player can choose which one to traget.

And changing dusc to Raw so he cant be used in such team.

1 Like
4

Twiggy is in my opinion as well OP considering he is one shotting all protectors and get instantly another turn making that jingle Ap mythic looks like he is worth 4 gems :joy: it’s great to see evil evolutions of existing monsters but that is indeed an overkill of that. I still love the design and the thoughts behind it. Just change the skill to not getting a turn again and lower tu and it’s fine

Oh and Mr. X the changes are in my opinion not just nerfing ap. It was somehow as well a fix of that issue plus some changes to meta. Making raw moves not redirectable is somehow not requested but a move from devs to push a protector free meta. I like it more but it doesn’t mean it will stay like that forever :wink:

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5

Twig is a hard counter though with so much risk. If you just have 1 AP, ok it’s dead, but he’s doing nothing all game, even with his extra turn

2 Likes
6

Twiggy killing two legendary protectors is soo much value.

If twiggy kills two legendary protectors its basically a 10 cost that killed 26 cost monsters in a insta and has potential to take out a third monster which can put you at a greater disadvantage. Most likely if you play two legendary protectors and face twiggy your most likely be playing with 26-48 cost lower then your opponent.

Then you have to ask yourself a question is it worth playing the protectors and having to face the risk or just go with Stun immunies fast sweepers.

1 Like
7

Twiggy with no protectors is deadweight all game. That’s the pros and cons of a hard counter :man_shrugging:t2:

3 Likes
8

You dont play such monster without ways to remove it.

And the game has so many ways of doing such. Like geo atra angelio, Switch places,etc

2 Likes
9

It’s still quite a commitment, all under the assumption that the enemy will have protectors. Keep in mind that even if you face up against a twiggy and you have like 3 protectors in queue(lol), you can still just… kill him before he gets the chance. He’s weak to chrono killer and has no real way to defend himself other than coming back a second time. And don’t you think you might be able to see that setup coming, and kill the guy about to kill twig so that they can’t get rid of the deadweight?

A monster’s value isn’t determined by its maximum potential, it’s determined by its average performance across all the battles it takes part in. If it ends up against a setup that relies heavily on protectors it’ll tear it apart, but at least 90% of current viable strats never use more than 1 at a time. Mayyybe one kill, but still mostly deadweight after that. The battles where he doesn’t do much will far outweigh those where he shreds multiple tanks in succession.

P.S., last pvp I had a battle where I lost 3 mons to twig right off the bat, still won. Comebacks are still a thing that can happen ya know.

1 Like
10

Apparently no.

Twiggy speed outspeed every chrono killer in the game.

And thats why i placed the question is it worth playing protectors or just go with the fast sweepers and stun immunies.

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What are you more afraid of: twig, or many dangerous single sweepers that struggle to get past tanks? You can never be safe from every single strategy, and that’s okay.

1 Like
12

Yes. Twiggy kills protectors. Don’t spam them then :man_shrugging:t2: run one protector and then there’s more risk on the opponent’s part. It’s not overkill for regularly played protectors. Just stops spamming them and it’s fine. Stopping spam isn’t overkill to protectors in general. I ran one in the FL last PvP with no issues

2 Likes
13

i rather take single sweepers any day.

as protectors have too many counters at the moment and the rise of ice feng and the buff he received on his raw makes them less useable specially repluse a monster with protect teammate to make deadweight for the entire game

14

Centaureon and angelion are as hard a counter to sleep as you can possibly get… does that make sleepers utterly useless? Of course not. As long as those monsters aren’t around to counter them they can do their job with terrifying results. Every strategy should have something they need to watch out for, and protector reliant setups are no exception.

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15

Exactly Luc. Twiggy only obliterates AP spam. Not strats that use a single Protector. Protectors are still very much viable.

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16

Hmm searguard has 93 speed while twig has only 92. What is this about twig outspeeding every chrono killer in the game???

2 Likes
17

Both monsters are not insta and require tu plus there were already existing counters to protectors.

Two protectors is not called ap spam.

18

cent is insta because it’s entrance instantly gives it a turn and can counter sleep with instant purify so how can you say cent is not insta?

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19

That’s still a fairly high concentration. I ran a team with 2 legend protectors in my fl last pvp, and on one occasion I instantly lost them both to twig. It felt very fair to me however, because by designing that FL I was fully acknowledging the possibility of a team being fully prepared to counter mine. And of course there’s also the fact that I won that match regardless :wink:

1 Like
20

we’re talking about the kill potential.

Cent requires 70 tu to kill compared to insta kill and get a turn.

Angelion requires tu to do purify