One final blow for AP spam?

The discussion has raged on for months on end… you all already know the deal by now. The devs have taken measures to counteract it, which is appreciated, yet it’s still always on the prowl. It’s just plain toxic, and I think a lot of us wouldn’t at all mind if it just disappeared. And I might have an idea to make that more or less happen, without too much fallout.

Twighoul had the right idea. Should he ever face up against an AP spammer, the punishment is grueling: up to 3 monsters gone in a flash, along with a primed 100 TU sweeper. And everyone has access to this monster, provided they’re willing to grind for the vorabooks. But there are several catches; first of all, it’s functionally a RAW skill, so using him restricts your own strategy. Secondly, his stunning entrance is heavily exploitable. And finally, worst of all, he just really doesn’t offer anything else. He’s a one trick pony; if there aren’t protectors to insta-gib, he’ll just sit around looking rather foolish. He might resort to glare and get one of his teammates killed, and if for whatever reason he gets knocked out, he’ll just come right back a second time, continuing to grace you with his worthless presence. For every match where he annihilates the enemy FL, there’ll be 9 more where he just sits there like, well… a stump, and hogs a much needed field spot. This heavily discourages his use, which in turn diminishes the impact of guardian execute.

Not only that, but individual protectors have been getting caught in the crossfire too; poor souls like Bullbrazen, Skeleviathan and Voodoom are buckling under the increasingly aggressive protector counters, having done nothing to deserve it. The fundamental problem here isn’t the use of any individual protector, but simply a multitude of them crammed together. Twig sort of failed to acknowledge that.

In light of that, my proposal is a move that specifically punishes opponents for abusing protectors, but leaves them be if they’re using them in moderation. A dual move, with piercing and possibly even revenge nullification, that only deals massive critical damage if BOTH of its targets are protectors. It should be given to a legend, it’s obviously too strong for a SE and it’d be way too inaccessible on a mythic. And said legend should have plenty of other things going for it too; this AP counter would be highly situational after all, especially if it’s managed to do its job, so it’s not nearly enough to make the monster all on its own. Think Cannibalize Token on Dusicyon; it rarely sees use, but makes an immense impact when the opportunity arises. If it’s part of a versatile and overall effective moveset, that’ll give it the platform it needs to have a genuine presence in the meta. From there it can rain terror down on AP spam, while leaving moderate, healthy protector use unscathed. Thus encouraging more balance and creativity in team building! What do y’all think?


Neat idea. Not sure how everyone would react to it… what about giving Twighoul a bit more usability but not necessarily versatility? Something like Bloodrage perhaps so it can kill itself if their are no protectors and not be, as you put it, a stump on a log. Obviously it would not be reborn under Bloodrage either.


Bringing back being able to activate your own dr would solve this problem

This is pathetic. Da hell is wrong with you? Honestly still complaining about this. Nothing has been hit so hard. Making it disappear is plain stupid. It will have PvE ramifications and make slow monsters completely useless for the FL.

I was certain people will still complain about AP spam even after this second nerf. . I wasn’t dissapointed.

Guess what?

You will still cry about it even if they add that counter you suggested.


I don’t think AP spam should be countered more. However, I DO advocate for a Twighoul buff. Twighoul just can’t do its job properly, because of Bomboid+Flocculasaurus, Musashoid and Tortogeist.

Guardian Execute is an ugly move. Instantly killing an entire monster archetype is a bad idea to begin with.
It should be changed to a better version of True Hit. A move that instantly kills an enemy if there are 2+ protectors on the enemy field and can’t be redirected.

Payback Killer
Demon’s Glare
True Hit+ (100 TU)

Would be a good moveset, in my opinion

EDIT: changed Soul Shield to Payback Killer because Soul Shield is kinda butt


Not as though I’m asking for an actual nerf… it’s one move on one potential upcoming monster, quite low maintenance. It’s just that the strategy’s very existence doesn’t feel right to me, you know?

What we need to end AP Spam annoyance is eliminating Targeting RNG when there is several AP on the field… (And giving bloom RAW tsunami Mortar because what people don’t understand is the value of bloom not as a sweeper but stun protection for AP Spammers they have a camo stun absorver with a massive sweeping potential hidden behind APs and even one that can give turn upon roaring entrance…)

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It doesn’t feel right to me to have the Maggot Daunt combo around.

It doesn’t feel right having Deathgazer end game with posion.

Moku doesn’t feel right at the back of the team neither does Peng.

Bastia’s and Lemons passive don’t feel right.

A lot of things don’t feel right. Doesn’t mean they should all dissapear…

The only thing they need to change is the targeting RNG…For the 1 millionth time.


I actually agree with most of that and you can add Novadrake instead of Moku’ complaint and we will think the same

Deathgazer should totally disappear and Lemon should follow it closely. Along with Penguinator (actually, all the multi-target Slayerbane users should)

How did you like my AP Spam Counter SOL @Toshi ?

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Not dissapear but making its passive a 25 TU reduction instead of freaking 50!!! Would do the work i don’t think devs really value it’s power the evidence is they broke the game when they released it :joy::joy::joy:

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Offcourse you don’t agree with Moku complaint because you have him😂

Novadrake is actually the worst after Deathgazer. I just couldn’t be bothered mentioning again.

Sad more people don’t build counters.

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They were all specifically designed to make use of their skills in that manner, although a few of them are rather egregious. APs were NOT intended to be lumped together en masse in an abusive manner. Protectors are meant to be a small portion of the lineup, used in moderation as part of a balanced strategy. People being able to cram 8-10 of them into their team and get away with it kind of undermines the strategy aspect.

The rng elimination would absolutely be another viable option; if I’m already attacking an active protector, I shouldn’t have to worry about having my attack redirected anyway. And I don’t mean to demand that the hypothetical counter be implemented… it’s just a suggestion that I feel would be overall good for game balance. Not to mention, the devs are already continuously pumping out lots of volatile new stuff. Would this really be so out of place?

I have Maggot and i agree with your complaint

Do you have Daunt?

No but i know its hard to counter if you are not prepared for it and about moku it’s true is a very strong endgame option but it needs a lot more of brain to use it than spam deathgazer in endgame

Moku and Peng don’t need a lot of brains. Moku is worse. They are both cheap. I’m currently using Peng but I know it’s cheap.

Well let’s agree we disagree :joy::joy::joy:

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