I don’t have issues dealing with them. I believe they should be nerfed because it is far too easy to place them in a team with little effort. Some of the nerfs I suggested should help with this.
good if you had to get nervous: dolphins (the plant only boosts the attack by 50% and is immune, instead it does not get defense bonus) Poseidon: (loses turn and gains acceleration with 100tu)
this does not mean that i agree with the nerf
Having S tier units consistantly be the most used units also is a boring thing but they do offer something to keep the meta healthy. What do you think Posiedon, GF subflower and elemental dolphins in common? Stun immunity and survivability. They don’t offer anything unique that makes the meta unplayable like Bastia when she first came out or ducy/bloomeluga’s whole existence.
I can see a nerf to defense boost but any kind of nerf to posiedon that is not exclusively targeting his annoying part (Front line) will be too much. I would rather see more Posiedon like support for FDs and CWs rather get more S+ legendaries “that is unique” but it is ALWAYS ran the same way and stay meta forever. Lol
I would say not
That is definitely something I’m willing to witness 
Yk whats my problem with those fish/dolphins.
I have to use my brain to make a team. I have to put a strain on my mind and constantly choose for better options that will synergize better. But people that use those dont have to.
Also fyi the way you say it , you make it sound like fish spammers are better than s tier spammers. Dude s tier spammers spam pvp oriented monsters meanwhile As teams follow up with dr spam. How can you say s tier spam is unfit for meta but not dr spam with a ridiculosly designed monster
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You made a smart move there comparing apples with oranges while trying to give the impression everything is fine. At least I won a few bets because I predicted you would do so.
I appreciate you looking back at the early days but its actually completely irrelevant my point is: The list fails because it’s limiting counters to oppressive strategies or just limits all the wrong things (We all remember the reign of terror of meatoid who got restricted when Magma was the problem, or the opressiveness of awakened gremoris who got restricted instead of Auraleus this time lol).
Recently (and that’s why a comparison with the start of the year wont bring you anywhere) we have seen a drastic increase of the dev build teams because dolphoone (while not being super great on itself) pushed the dolphs into top tier when played together and A.S. Myst in the Shop really boosted all the Poseidon Teams because it gave those teams a reliable source of attack while both Myst and poseidon are almost impossible to hit when played with AP Spam.
My point is:
Right now we dont need any other “gets boosted when played together” archetype monster series its definitely enough. Dolphs and especially poseidon should be looked at. I have absolutely no problem with the stat boost from poseidon but I think Camouflage is a bit much (could be changed to camouflage entrance at least.). Dolphs could lose the Defence boost. But I’m not too eager to deal with them by nerfs. The list could solve the problem by putting at least two of them in 1.
After all I think the reward you get for putting together 3 or 4 monsters the game tells you to play together is too much compared to other strats that actually require thought to be put into them. It’s the wrong incentive for a strategy game. At least if it continues like this.
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I don’t know what was the point of your reply but no, I don’t think one strategy users are better than the other. I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of those who ONLY complain about “archetype” spammers but not S tier units which have been, as KD pointed out with empirical evidence, more “meta” and have arguebly made top tier stale themselves.
The beauty of archetypes, imo, id say is that they make worse units viable like how dolphoone and dolphreeze uplift fire dolphin and earth dolphin or how abyss soldiers are playable (and not spammed, all you need is one) thanks to Posiedon.
I would like to see this with other bottom tier units where they get to shine in the S tier rampaging that is competitve meta. Maybe, it doesn’t need to heavily reward you for playing all spamming all of one archetype like dolphins but let’s not forget dolphins are not a regular archetype, they are overbuffed no weakness units with double hitting or single target critical moves.
Lastly, I wanna clarify that this is my own biases and opinions so take it with grain of salt. I don’t think my thoughts are the only correct ones, probably mostly wrong maybe… hopefully not, so no antagonise each other when we disagree about stuff. The devs made it clear or at least their CEO that money comes first (look how much we asked them to stop creating basicly naked woman as monsters) so they’ll probably nerf every viable legendary that we complain about and keep some problematic mythics as they are. I mean, how long did it take them to nerf the worst mythic ever created, lemon? Anyways, hopefully they don’t overnerf things. (Also to make things clear, I don’t own dolphoone or dolphreeze but even then I wouldn’t want them to get butchered)
I understand people have opinions but to actually believe bond passives are totally okay is something concerning . Weird world
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I don’t believe you made an argument for why poseidon, charge frontlines, and dolphins aren’t too strong to warrant a nerf. Even if they weren’t part of an archetype, strategies this strong and easy to use need some adjustment.
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Actually I think Dolphin Bond is a nice thing in paper! I love the +50% ATK/DEF boost, it makes Mythic monsters’ higher stats easier to deal with.
BUT the Stun Immunity on all of them is wack and unoriginal. Give each one of them an unique passive and we’ll be able to see what dolphs can achieve in actually creative teambuilding!
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I made a couple I think. You might wanna say, you didn’t any argument that changed my mind which I wasn’t trying to. I also didn’t talk about charge FL. In fact, I would absolutely love to see it get nerfed. I was also only talking about archetype units that mention “names” as someone said.
I don’t think they are okay. I think they are amazing and should be on more units that are viable on their own.
If this was true id have no problems. But its not.
People use Abyss soldiers with Poseidon to support poseidon to empower other strategies. Poseidon isnt used to support Abyssoldiers. It is used to abuse give turns to something that isnt related to Abyssoldiers in anyway. Its not even raw that makes him spam that 59 tu gt without any restriction.
Also stun counter/camo/200% stat boost is really just toooo much. It just pushes the meta to ap spam direction again. And dolphins dont reallly synergize good they are just stun immune tanks. They dont reallly make each other viable with active moves. The way they are now its no different from s tier spam.killer immunity and stun immunity with massive stat. It isnt much different from s tier spam.
They just buff stats while being active.which also can be dealt with. I dont want dolphins out. But instead they should have a passive or active moves rework that will make them much more interesting to use.
This is also another issue.
S tier spam consists of 16 monsters. So you actually need a big enough collecetion and skill to do that. Even dolphins were okay unless they became cheap during anni. But thats not the case for Abyssoldiers. You actually need poseidon and the Ap/breaker/myst.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this. The list has a few dubious entries each time (without knowing what the Devs intentions were) and sometimes misses the mark a little (e.g. not going straight for Magma when people were sick of link fire and really needed a break from it). However, the recent lists have definitely been going for a lot of the stuff in the recent meta and taking extra things into account like not constantly targeting stun protection or repeatedly putting in the same monsters so the overall result is some mild pressure on the meta to shift around.
I think sometimes people expect the restriction list to be a tool to push recent archetypes out of PvP altogether or they have a personal opinion about what it should have gone for but it’s really just trying to encourage things to shift a little and generally creating a slightly different environment every couple of months were a few overplayed monsters see a bit less play. For example, you say “Put two dolphins in (1) restriction” when our current list has one in (1) and two in (2). The list is not blocking their use completely, just saying if you want to use them you cannot use other restricted monsters too. Even with this approach we have many people complaining the restrictions are too harsh on their teams, so surely you can appreciate this is a compromise between getting stuff out of the meta and letting people still play with their strong monsters.
Yeah ultimately they made need a nerf, like some dominant things from the past. For Poseidon I think it’s mostly his use in the front line which should be handled.
NoelLemon hits the nail on the head here. Without archetypes that give you proper payoffs people will tend to S+ spam. That’s why we need monsters like Magmarinus to push link archetypes or Gryphking/Sarcrosphinx to push mortar. In a vacuum they can look overpowered, but they require specific team building and can have inherent weaknesses (e.g. knockback random messes up a lot of them). The groups of monsters like dolphins or where you’re specifically using Poseidon to lift up the “weak” Abyssoldier SEs are no different. They have to be used together to work well (which also limits their power) and can be countered by disruption. Monster groups / payoffs also make a lot of extra monsters being used. NoelLemon points it out with dolphins but it’s also true for things like Magmarinus making a bunch of fire monsters see play that otherwise wouldn’t.
In my opinion, the game really needs playable archetypes built into it more in order to keep things fresh in the long term. There will still be some archetypes that aren’t about a select group of monsters so give you more freedom to be creative, or ones we build ourselves like Aurodragon/Dusicyon + value. I think it’s really important to not blind yourself to the negatives of the past where there were a small group of powerful monsters seeing play in top teams almost every season, even if they were appearing at different parts of teams so it was less obvious. For example, people are moaning about FLs they’ve seen for a couple of months but I’m not sure if I’ve seen a single complaint about Jaguardian being top 10 FL monster for the last 14 months!
A long post from me again so I’ll summarise:
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The list quite passively encourages the meta to change by forcing tradeoffs and creates a slightly different environment every two months. The data seems to show it does bring more diversity. I think people are too harsh expecting specific things from it based on their own opinion.
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If Poseidon needs tweaking, powering down its use in the FL seems the best way to go. Dolphins could similarly be nerfed if they prove too strong.
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Stronger payoffs for archetypes (or groups of monsters) are good for keeping things fresh in the long term and fairly important to get over the inherent weaknesses of trying to put a specific archetype/group together. Without these, we’ll end up having PvP remain quite stale at the top tier apart from whenever a general use S+ monster comes out.
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Ultimately, I’d like to see design continue to encourage archetypes (nerfing/tweaking if too strong/dominant) and believe there will stay enough ways to be creative in team building.
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I just hatched a monster I have a pretty cool Poseidon Combo in mind with.
Forget what I said - I love archetypes 
Bro @DMGInterference You should consider getting paid for the hours you’re already typing in this thread
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Tbf I’ve seen lots of complaint regarding the abundance of Retribution FLs, which include Jaguardian most of the times.
I too like archetypes a lot (except Thlugs, worst monsters in the game)! They really play into that “combo” type of feel that is so pleasant to pull off in all games.
My biggest qualm is about the Dolphs, and how they’re handled.
They’re mighty glaciers with enhanced stats (which I repeat is fine) AND Stun Immunity on top of that.
What’s the difference between that and S Tier/Stun Immunity spam? It’s a combination of the two, actually!
Worst thing about them is, considering the huge boost they get, that there’s NOTHING to disincentivize you from running as much as you can together, while Abyssoldiers do.
My PvP experience with them is mostly comprised of absolutely fine teams with the Dolphin Section™, where you find 3+ dolphins in a row.
This is a big variety killer in my opinion!! Worms have the same issue, with the difference worms are meant to be like this by design. Dolphins could be reworked into something much more interesting!
For example, Abyssoldiers are imho the archetype which is handled best in the game.
There are 12 of them, which means lots of possibilities and applications for PvP & PvE alike.
They are flexible (two passive for Bond and for running them solo) but not so much so that you can slap them everywhere (two SOLO skills).
Finally, Poseidon really makes them worth running and greatly supports them, making them PvP viable.
Poseidon is a fine monster I have almost nothing against, except the fact the game allows a monster with Camouflage + triple defence + 63% speed to (indirectly) chain 59sec Give Turn to a monster of your choice (ahem cough Kuromasa)
That incredibly dull combo is the only thing I hate about it.
F.D.s and P.G.s are also better than dolphins (imho) because their bond is shown through ACTIVE moves, which means you have to go the extra step to get the maximum out of your archetype, instead of just having two monsters exist simultaneously.
@ItsSherlock forget about it. I had to rewrite my draft all over again because I ended up deleting it by mistake, and I can’t Ctrl-Z on phone…
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not a single canishogun found yet they decided to target him could it be any more random?
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Damn!!
I love the dedication of you guys for writing such long posts 
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