Thalazaar 💖 (Poll and Discussion)

[Killerdog]

Just added it into the tier list

@Killerdog

Thalazaar goes in at D for PvE, E for PvP, second form tier 2 and D for HP boost, with medium speed and requiring 50TU charge before it can do anything this takes about 100s from entering the battlefield to attack and then the attacks are 200TU or 250TU… that’s super slow! The attacks do at least either one-shot all enemies or piercing kill two. However, this gets wrecked by stealth. In reality, no revenge or entrance and being this slow makes it easy enough to handle either by killing, stunning, stealthing or simply taking the attack and leaving on high TU. The opponent will have enough time to decide which they’d prefer. Adverse smash might line up but pain charge doesn’t really set it up and the SS requires link plus something to sacrifice so is a bit awkward.

Overall it seems underpowered, the only upside being it doesn’t really become complete dead weight because it will get kills if left alone. That stops it from being at the absolute bottom of the tier list. We all expect it to get a buff at some point. I really hope they don’t make it another S tier with something ridiculous.

[Withrow]

Would it be interesting if by charging (and still losing life points) he would get two shields? It has two heads after all, and I saw the two shields gimmick from another monster (which I cannot recall at the moment).

[PurpleHeart]

@Killerdog

Yeah the charge parts of their moveset are always the weakest bit. Ayna is good from the double bloodcrave with stun converter, full healing and defence buff. The instant charging from protectors as a gimmick wasn’t strong enough. Alyce is obviously from all the other aspects of her moveset, we only use the charge → laser for a single kill.

You guys keep bringing up alyce, but she is a fundamentally diffent monster from any charge monster we have ever seen, as her entire gimmick is to enter as many times as possible to make use of her absurd entrence, which loops around to what I said earlier, their strength lies in the passive or their gimmick, which alyce has 2 exstremly strong ones

@Killerdog

Thalazaar’s gimmick is the fact it hurts itself to charge. I don’t think they’ve been able to properly design an interesting moveset around that gimmick. Adverse smash is not exciting and the charge move doesn’t even turn it on properly. The other moves do nothing with the gimmick.

The problem is as you say, his gimmick is badly designed, I can see ways around it afcourse, play it with akane lower it’s HP get into a easy adverse smash range, I dont see that being strong enough to acctualy be threatening as it’s a 110 second piercing kill, that according to coltraz won’t even kill everything, haven’t tested it myself so I gotta take his word for it.

If you want it to be worth it the entire gimmick needs a overhaul to synergies better with itself, as now he just feels like a slower worse auraleus

[Killerdog]

@PurpleHeart

You guys keep bringing up alyce

I don’t know if you thought I was contesting you with it, but I mentioned Alyce to agree with you how she’s an “energy monster” but it’s everything else about her moveset that’s good and that’s why she’s strong.

@PurpleHeart

adverse smash
…
that according to coltraz won’t even kill everything, haven’t tested it myself so I gotta take his word for it

It one-shots, just doesn’t one-shot in PvE due to their stats buff. There might be a small chance for it to not one-shot mythics with naturally high HP + HP boost (don’t know the exact damage range). Otherwise, it doesn’t one-shot storm monsters but that type of thing is usually a given.

[NoelLemon2]

@NoelLemon2

Tbf they were like Thalazaar too until they got buffed. I hope he gets floodgate and tanky effects so he gets value for being on the field rather than making him a sweeping machine like what we saw for all strong releases for the past year.

Time freeze and Hold ground needs to be added definitely but also maybe a unique new effect? Maybe we can bring back Decree of Mercy and put it on a mythic finally?

@Cesar

He has the same skills (or almost) as Auraleus, so that means he needs to be built around him. He has a fast charge. and he will be relevant at every turn not being able to be ignored like some other mythics. But since he is not as he is a modest guy he is treated as useless and bad all this so that he becomes a broken ■■■■■■■ where it would take 10 IQ to use it since broken assholes can be put anywhere and work without much thought

I agree with this. They shouldn’t change his sweeping power but instead make him like Evie where they gain value from being on the field. I really hope the sweeping power is not the thing that gets buffed because he definitely will recieve some

I think they should do something like this. I really hope they don’t make him a boring sweeper by improving his cooldowns and whatever because he is just gonna be another midocre charge monster. I wanna also bring up ALYCE (other than the fact that her insane powercreepy entrance skills where she almost made an already strong mythic stunner look pathetic next to her, Tengoku) is a really cool design where she has an outdated and generally viewed as a bad mechanic, charge. She even has only 169TU sweeping power only if she is not poisoned yet she is still a top tier monster which is cool.

He just needs to have value by being on the field and not just become another sweeper with 50 speed.

[Mr.X]

@Killerdog

How? Either Kasumi is alive so the Jerbo can get a piercing kill, or she’s dead and they can sacrifice themselves to get a kill. The only problem is if Kasumi has been knocked back.

If Kasumi is alive and has not used her secret skill, Jerbo cannot get a one-shot piercing kill. Without the secret skill, the damage is only around 2.8–3k, meaning it would take at least two 160 TU attacks, which is probably game losing early in the game

You also need to consider that Kasumi enters at around 66 TU. If you plan on using the secret skill, that’s another 66 TU just to set up Jerbo—making it 132 TU for the setup which loses alot lf tempo, and can setup you for stun

many times you can not afford to use the secret skill and without mai, you risk getting jerbo locked if she is knocked back basically losing the game on the spot.

@Killerdog

I appreciate that the poison revenge will disrupt it, but there will be many times when there is a good target to sleep. For example, an enemy that is poison immune or a newly entered enemy after the poison revenges from Jerbo have already happened. Sleeping an enemy is far better than killing it if you know it’s not going to be woken up for a while.

Putting an enemy to sleep is good early in the game since it gives you control. However, it often comes down to gamble on a 75% chance to sleep, or take out the enemy with 100%, furthermore you have to take into consideration what players run, poison-immune monsters that are played at the top level are, Nagandia, Prixis, Mantifero, and Doomgro. Three of the four are usually played in the front line, while Kasumi typically enters late in the game. Taking a gamble on any of these four is extremely risky when Kasumi can deal with them without issue.

@Killerdog

I hope to see Kasumi a bit more in practice so I can fully understand her new power level, but she’s changed dramatically with the recent buff so you can probably use her in any position in any team. Previously you needed to avoid her entrance unless you had Mai. I don’t think there’s much question about whether the buff changed the way she can be played. The only question is whether she’s a new power creeped S tier mythic or if in practice some things make her less good than other S tiers. On the face of it, her moveset is super generic, efficient TU and all powerful moves plus she can have a defence buff relatively easily… it looks power creepy to me. Unless the jerbos are a liability (which they don’t seem like any more) I don’t think there’s any way to downplay her power.

I wouldn’t say that Kasumi can be played in any position. If she gets knocked back, it’s often an instant loss without mai, her secret skill becomes mandatory just to be able to get rid of Jerbo. On top of that, if she uses her secret skill, you become extremely vulnerable to stun something you wouldnt want early in the game.

am not trying to downplay her, but i think you have exaggerated alot with her recent buffs that you overlooked the weakness and counter synergy and the loss of tempo, i would put her an A tier and with Mai S-

[Killerdog]

@Mr.X

If Kasumi is alive and has not used her secret skill, Jerbo cannot get a one-shot piercing kill. Without the secret skill, the damage is only around 2.8–3k, meaning it would take at least two 160 TU attacks

Yeah, found this out right after I sent my last message. It definitely changes my analysis of her! For some reason I thought it did about 5k damage but my memory was wrong.

[Mr.X]

@Killerdog

Yeah, found this out right after I sent my last message. It definitely changes my analysis of her! For some reason I thought it did about 5k damage but my memory was wrong.

Wish it did 5k damage, overall that skill is horrible compared to the bomb skill, i do use it from now and then when i have cinder or want to keep some reinforcement for tengoku but its situational, 90% of the time i use the bomb because that skill has way too high tu

[Mr.X]

My final take on this guy, hes an F tier at the moment and we all are expecting huge buffs for this guy

Here is my idea to buff this guy,

Holding ground is a must to be added,

The SS also grant energy charge aswell

Adverse smash goes to 52tu

Plasma blast has void

And just make him like nova where all his energy skills deal damage to him so its easier to reach 50%hp

[Coltraz]

@Mr.X

Holding ground is a must to be added,

No thanks, not into giving more targets for Berry fls.

[Mr.X]

If we go by that logic than its better not to have any passives, for his design its a must otherwise its completely pointless design

[Coltraz]

Giving him weaknesses instead of adjusting skills and TU does not help.

[Herr_Loki]

OMG in what moment HG became a weakness? That berry is hitting hard indeed

[NoelLemon2]

He is done losing to Mr.X

[Coltraz]

My Kanna frontline already laughs at those Berry teams, so no worries there. I am just pointing out that slapping a weakness onto something that did not have one before does not magically make it better.

Maybe try adding a constructive opinion for once instead of turning every discussion into “his team beats your team.”

[NoelLemon2]

Just slap Thalazaar with Kanna

[NoelLemon2]

@Coltraz

Maybe try adding a constructive opinion for once instead of turning every discussion into “his team beats your team.”

This is the first time I talk like this lol

[101X31]

This is my idea for making this monster viable in awakened form

1.AT 50%+ HP increase in defence 200% and attack 50% while less than 50%HP increase in defence 50% and attack 200%

2.Pain charge consume 20% of current HP in awaken form and 30% in 2nd form (increase in HP consumption because it won’t die to fast)

3.Add the passive “Art of taiji”

4.Plasma blast either 110tu or 136tu (with +9) so there’s difference between awaken and 2nd form

5.Adverse smash 100tu

6.SS link instant sacrifice charge

7.Either make it’s speed 65 to 70+ or make it 25 to 31(so either we play it with fast FL or with Giehretus)

This way it still have some gimmick while not being broken as it’s fellow comrades. It’s just my opinion so correct the mistake you see

[Mr.X]

Since when is holding ground a weakness !!!

Your saying ridiculous things, just because one monster in the game counters holding ground doesnt make it a weakness, without holding ground this monster is trash

[NoelLemon2]

Man this monster’s design is so cool but the skillset and the suggestion people have for it is aweful.. Why can’t this monster have unique cool skillset like Pandora and Kasumi or creativity only exists for waifus? (I’m not talking about Pandora and Kasumi’s power level btw I’m specifically talking about how creative their skillset is which is why I pulled both)