Not enough at all if Puffoxin is involved.
“Please read carefully Ash. I said putting a limit on ID, OM and PVP is not a good idea , but that does not mean putting a limit on PVP is not a good idea.”
Direct contradiction. (Because even if you meant all three, that still does include PvP having limits.)
“No offence, but sometimes I wonder how good will you be at this game if you were not a beta tester. I dare you to play in a new save without any exclusives. I also wonder if you will still say all these kinds of things when you are in your new save.”
I’m not here to argue with you about my skill in the game. I’m here to discuss what I see as an issue with the game.
You’re going to have to discuss this with respect, or not discuss at all.
“Or if playing in a new save is too much, delete your two Destructors, and tell yourself “the OM Arks will be released in the future”, as you have been telling this to the less fortunate players who did not win the OM.”
I’m sorry if having two destructors offended you - I’m only playing the game like everyone else.
However, my suggestion here is absolutely not against players who did not win missions. It’s actually very much in support of them, as I alluded to above.
“Play like a normal player, so that you can think like a normal player. You won’t become a successful game programmer if you don’t feel for your players.”
"** Seems like you are simply arguing, not logical debating."**
And you are too busy verbally attacking me to debate logically. We can’t have that in this argument.
We need to keep this civil. Please leave personal attacks out, and discuss the game. Don’t discuss me.
I have added a poll for people to vote about this issue here. Please participate.
Hmm this is very clear… In no way I think Halopard is weak. He’s one of the best support arks in the game, not very rare too, & can do offering.
That’s why I am very curious to know how you got to level 300+ WITHOUT any unreleased arks/eggs exclusives & ANY duplicates.
Maybe I should remind you that that means you can take your destructor (say even 2) & omega, & there’s no more 10+ star arks then… hmmmmm…
I do not think I had a Destructor, it didn’t come out in beta until way near the end.
What I did have is strategy.
Again, though, I’m not here to argue with you about my skill in this game. I stated that Aethin and I were past 200, and other beta testers can back me on this. This is not what we’re arguing about.
Let’s stay on topic, please.
That’s why I said you speak like a goddess.
A player says he uses Halopads. That’s completely fine. And then you are talking down to him and then show off you have access to all Arks and how strategic your team is. To be honest I can’t see how Omegawyrm + 2 Destructors THAT strategic, more sounds like a brute force…
You have 2 Destructors do not upset me. Your attitude that shows no sympathy to the less fortunate player upsets me, especially you are the moderator of this forum who has great influence. You may think I am attacking you. I am not. I just want to let you know that you should feel for the other players.
Now with the poll is on, there’s probably no point in continuing this debate, but I will urge you to take away any comments in the pool that may cause bias.
Well, I would argue that Halopard is weak even without the unreleased monsters I have.
One thing you don’t understand is I played this game fully without any unreleased monsters and played PvP without any unreleased monsters (and by the way, I can’t use them in PvP anyway anymore).
I play the missions without any unreleased monsters.
I play the game just like everyone else plays the game.
I don’t see at all how I don’t feel for other players. My suggestion is: restrict duplicates so those other players can have a chance against all the egg-timers!
How is that not feeling for the other players? Can anyone tell me how I’m not feeling for other players? The beta testers are a huge minority - there are maybe less than 10 of us active.
The egg timers are a huge population of people. I’m trying to help those players have a chance against them. Don’t you see?
There is nothing about my suggestions that are self-serving or selfish in any way. A restriction will not benefit me in any way whatsoever.
Please quit saying that I’m acting in selfish interests, because I am not. And it is quite hurtful that you keep portraying me as someone completely different from who I am.
Ok so to clarify on your strategy. You went to level 200+ (not 300 anymore), without any duplicates / unreleased arks / eggs exclusive ? That leaves you with only Omega as 12 star & no 10+ star arks.
I know this is not what this whole thread is about, but you brought up this fact, so I need to dig it out because I can’t seem to see it happening.
I did got to 210 without unreleased arks (not that I had access to it) & no eggs exclusive, but I brought multiple halopards…
OK I will stop. I have no intention of hurting you. And I have never doubted your HI skills.
OK if you think restrictions can help normal players against egg timers, so be it, although you still have not answered me if you were a normal player, what can you do to improve your odds in winning the OM in pool A.
My final point is, yes banning duplicates can prevent multiple Frillzeons. But the timers still have all the other exclusive S rank Arks.
For normal players, once the duplicates have been banned, after getting Omegawyrm and Arkwing, you tell me, what can they do?
Is what you are proposing really helping the normal players?
Banning duplicates won’t kill the timers, they have all S rank Arks. And then will people complain again and ask for a ban on S rank?
“although you still have not answered me if you were a normal player, what can you do to improve your odds in winning the OM in pool A.”
I did. I would tell the developers to restrict duplicates, or I would also get tons of duplicates. Given that I wouldn’t want to play with tons of duplicates, I would choose the first option.
"My final point is, yes banning duplicates can prevent multiple Frillzeons. But the timers still have all the other exclusive S rank Arks.
For normal players, once the duplicates have been banned, after getting Omegawyrm and Arkwing, you tell me, what can they do?
Is what you are proposing really helping the normal players?"
Well, certainly MORE so than the current situation. Because that brings it down to:
Omegawyrm / Arkwing / other non-exclusives vs a Frillzeon that is now quite weak… a Vegitiger that isn’t good in missions. Minespider / stegospike / pegasion aren’t good in missions. Volcawolf isn’t good in missions. Subzeratops isn’t too good in missions… Infernowyrm is but it kills itself. Etc.
So that’s looking much better for those normal players.
Counting the mission monsters in, normal players who can’t time now have a decent chance at getting them when competing against these timers. And the timers can’t get a huge army of the mission monster through mission eggs, either. So that leaves the normal player and the timers on much more even playing fields.
Otherwise it would have been: all of these 11 star / 12 star monsters would get duplicated many times, while the non-timer would still be left with Omegawyrms. And Omegawyrm isn’t very good compared to many unreleased monsters.
So how fair is THAT?
There’s all these what ifs and what can happen being thrown around
But the question is: do we have proof that there are teams of 50 Frills?
Do we have legitimate proof of this happening?
I’m not saying that it hasn’t happened but i understand for the online parts but the infinite dungeon? We know that the Devs have made it ridiculously difficult in the dungeon but does the limit really, REALLY need to go there?
There will be some who get up there and quit and there are some that will just not get up there
I can see your point. Regarding your answer, I was asking about what you are going to do in-game. After farming your Omegawyrm and Arkwing, what will you farm?
What do you mean by other non-exclusives? That’s my whole point. Other than these 2 Arks that are no good Arks at clearing creeps. OK maybe Necrodrake, Magmawyrm and Typhoonwyrm can do the job too. But what if these Arks fall due to Puffoxin or boss fights? Then the players need to rely on the lower-star non-exclusives. If there is no restrictions, they can work hard and get another Omegawyrm and still have a chance to win.
Now let’s look at the timers. Yes most of the exclusives are more PVP orientated. But note that the timers have access to all the non-exclusives too. So even after the restriction, they will still be ALWAYS more powerful than the normal players.
Before the restrictions, if the normal players work hard enough and get multiple Omegawyrms, they may still have a chance. After the restrictions, there is nothing they can work hard for and they will always be inferior to the timers.
You tell me, if you are a normal player, after the restrictions have been implemented, what Arks are you going to farm to increase your chance to win?
Yes, we have plenty of proof. Check in with how well those people can get 5,000 gold prizes and get a huge team of Frillzeons through egg timing.
“What do you mean by other non-exclusives? That’s my whole point. Other than these 2 Arks that are no good Arks at clearing creeps. OK maybe Necrodrake, Magmawyrm and Typhoonwyrm can do the job too. But what if these Arks fall due to Puffoxin or boss fights? Then the players need to reply on the lower-star non-exclusives. If there is no restrictions, they can work hard and get another Omegawyrm and still have a chance to win.”
True, but the egg-timers will be in the same pickle. Because, as I said, the others are not helpful at all. They would slow the person down more than help.
So again, this is a more fair playing field.
“Now let’s look at the timers. Yes most of the exclusives are more PVP orientated. But note that the timers have access to all the non-exclusives too. So even after the restriction, they will still be ALWAYS more powerful the timer.”
I can’t deny that we can’t make it completely even between the timers and non-timers, but I’m trying to get us as close as we can get. This restriction would definitely bring them much closer together.
“Before the restrictions, if the normal players work hard enough and get multiple Omegawyrms, they may still have a chance. After the restrictions, there is nothing they can work hard for and they will always be inferior to the timers.”
This is even more true with the restriction, though. As I pointed out in my above example (especially duplicating the amazing 11/12 star monsters that are far superior to Omegawyrm). So again, we’re trying to pick the best alternative. Neither is perfect, but one clearly (to me) appears to be better than the other.
“You tell me, if you are a normal player, after the restrictions have been implemented, what can you do to increase your chance to win?”
Get an Omegawyrm, Typhonwyrm, Magmawyrm, Luxknight, Arkwing, Angelon, mission monsters I legitimately win when I do the mission. Etc.
OK, I understand you.
Some 11/12 stars maybe be better than Omegawyrms in PVP, but I think in terms of clearing creeps, Omegawyrms are still the best. Can you list some which you think are better than Omegawyrms? I wouldn’t consider any Dark Arks because there are many Holy Arks in OM.
Honestly, once the egg timing is fixed, it should fix the other issues
Yes those that still have those gained from egg timing still have them but where will they be useful?
In the ID which I feel should be insanely hard if they’re at that level and if it’s not, turn the dial up 1000, causing much of them to quit because they can’t get anymore
On top of the fact only one is allowed in the PVP and if they do limit it in online missions, it’ll make the teams effectively worthless
And I think the key difference in our thinking is that, you see the restriction as a way to closer the gap between timers and normal players, while I see the restriction to be a way to completely eliminate the possibility of a normal player being better than the timers.
“Some 11/12 stars maybe be better than Omegawyrms in PVP, but I think in terms of clearing creeps, Omegawyrms are still the best. Can you list some which you think are better than Omegawyrms? I wouldn’t consider any Dark Arks because there are many Holy Arks in OM.”
Cryowyrm. Golgemios. Jumboid. Vortexor. Triphoon. All of these duplicated would absolutely ruin the game, I hate to tell you. Frillzeon is bad enough, and these are far superior to Frillzeon in terms of clearing and just about everything else.
“In the ID which I feel should be insanely hard if they’re at that level and if it’s not, turn the dial up 1000, causing much of them to quit because they can’t get anymore”
Which also affects all the rest of us who still can’t reach them, especially now that it’s so much harder. A restriction should been put in place to begin with, before people got spoiled by it.
“And I think the key difference in our thinking is that, you see the restriction as a way to closer the gap between timers and normal players, while I see the restriction to be a way to completely eliminate the possibility of a normal player being better than the timers.”
It wouldn’t at all. It would certainly bring them much closer, and this will become more and more true as time goes on…
Shoulda, woulda, coulda
It’s a bit too late to do anything about it now and the restriction for ID really isn’t worth it
For the Online mission I completely see your point and agree with it
But all the Arks you listed are future Arks. By that time the timing issue should have been fixed. So they will not be duplicated.
Well regarding the last point, you need to try hard to convince me what a normal player can do that the timers can’t to make the normal players more superior. Before the restriction, the timers use 3 * Frillzeon, the normal player can POTENTIALLY use 3 * Omegawyrms, both can one-shot stuff. After the restrictions, the Arks that a normal player can select becomes very limited.
They’re future Arks, and a huge amount of people have well over 100,000 gold (and people can buy more by the way) saved up from timing. Fix the timing issue, but this issue isn’t fixed.
And I never said normal players would be superior, I simply said that I’m trying to bring them closer together.
Do note that army attacks are far stronger than anything Omegawyrm can hope to do.
Well having this amount of gold will cause unfairness in PVP, OM and ID. But I think this is a completely different issue. The developers should find ways to get back the golds. I have seen other online games successfully doing this.
Well you are proposing this will close the gap, while I am proposing this will widen the gap. Let’s see who’s right. Mind you though, if I am right, the timers keep winning the OMs and the gap will be even wider.
Though Army attacks are stronger than Omega’s, who cares when Omega can also one-shot most stuff in OM?