One final blow for AP spam?

If somebody is happy to take the risk of lumping a whole lot together I say let them. It’s high risk very high risk in fact. I wreck them so hard.

It can be plenty effective if you’re not prepared for it though. Just today I lost to an AP spammer with cyclo and alba in my FL. They did all they could, but they gotten taken out quickly and there were still far too many APs for me to get through.

What happens if Chromera and Dracorosa run into a team full of poisoners? They wreck house. What if Centaureon and Bunkerbeast meet a full lineup of sleepers? They shut them down. Angelion and Tygoron against stun spam? No problem. But no matter how much I populate my FL with cyclo, drakion, tago and alba, there’s always that one encounter with them where they just can’t keep up. If an archetype can be invested in heavily enough to override its hardest counters, that’s what I see as a problem.

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Theres a whole lot of different opinions floating about here, so I’m gonna throw in my two cents in regards to monsters that I own that are being discussed and my thoughts on the ones being talked about that i do not own.

First off is Deathgazer and Penguinator.

I will wholly agree that Deathgazer should have its Passive nerfed or at least have some value of nerf added to it without destroying the functionality of the monster. But what would be the answer then? Its moveset is already situationally mediocre at best, the passive is not only what makes it OP, but without it the monster is just extremely underwhelming at best. So how to fix it?

Replacing its passive with Roaring Entrance would be interesting, it would be the first Roaring Entrance Poison Massacre monster in the game, therefore still filling a niche spot while losing power but gaining an option.

Another suggestion could be to nerf its speed so low to the point that Deathgazer himself definitely will not be pushed ahead of the opponents monsters via its passive. Again, I own and use this monster and I definitely agree it needs a nerf.

As for The Penguinator, whom I also own, I’m not necessarily sure it needs a nerf, especially not it Deathgazer gets his Entrance nerfed. Without Gazer to back it up, this Penguin is ungodly slow and weak to Chrono Killer, more often than not getting picked off without an additional gimmick to back it up. SBA is 200TU and unless Overwatch is used prior to that, the Penguin is dead weight after that 1 use move. Especially with the amount of Excessive Force in the game, I’m not sure this guy needs a nerf as bad as others.

On to the monsters I do not own, Moku and Novadrake. These are two monsters I’m currently saving up on gems for when they are next featured due to their sheer power. I’m honestly not sure how to tackle Moku, but I do have an idea on how to handle Novadrake.

For Novadrake, I feel the issue comes not from his ability to lock out a team and steal games, but from how easy and seemingly risk free it is to do this. Often he comes in and with his speed, he gets hit maybe twice before his turn, usually pushing him to Hold Ground. From there he can Second Wind, Stun Wave, and run away with the game quite easily. So I have two separate suggestions that can help deal with Novadrake.

1, put a TU Restrictuon on his Second Wind of “50s from this monsters first turn”. This takes away none of his power, but does require a bit more careful team building around him in order to ensure he is effective rather than just placement wherever you like.

2, change the Secret Skill to Stun Wave (50TU) and replace the normal skill slot for Stun Wave to “Repent - 50TU”. This change would hamper Novas ability to step in and steal games reliably without getting a kill and make Blood Price an actual possible negative, similar to Magmarinus. Obviously this change is a bit harsher but it does give him a bit more versatility in a team by being able to heal itself and other Sweepers at will, just at the cost of resetting their kills.

Thoughts everyone?

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:heart_eyes:

Everyone will defend their Strategy or mon…
So don’t nerf Novadrake he’s fine :v

I didnt defend mine lol. I’m all about nerfing Deathgazer and hes in the endgame of nearly every PvP team I’ve made since i got him

I might have to disagree here . They simply put polaboss among these protectors . It’s not at all a risk .
Id want crescendo damage to reset after crescendo blast.

Nerf this, nerf that, nerf everything I don’t like. Christ, even when an update nerfed a few things that people have begged for, y’all aren’t satisfied.

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People use Crescendo Blast??

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It’s pathetic. I guarantee if the Devs add such a counter to the game they will still complain about AP spam.

I think ap spam is fine as it is run raw moves, sneak attack and you’ll be fine

Is AP spam really that hard to counter tho

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I do if I have a GT right next to it, but I guess that strategy is over some people’s heads :face_with_monocle:

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It’s easy

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Well there are lots of nerfing opinion but I think instead of nerfing everything we can find a new strategies to counter things. And for ap spam in last update it’s heavily countered by so many monsters.

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These aren’t new counters to AP spam. They mostly just attack and kill the protectors, which doesn’t achieve a lot if there is a horde of them in the enemy team.

True Hit is now an incredibly good move. Only 130TU and strong enough to one-shot anything in the enemy team (it got a +50% damage buff in a recent update). It’s actually creating a whole new strategy where we might even purposefully place protectors in the enemy team so we can switch off any raw moves they have + meet the true hit condition to sweep their other monsters.

There are some huge counters to protectors now with raw, sneak attack and now true hit is a big addition to the collection. All we need is more monsters with true hit, which will no doubt come with time. The fact it’s been added to the standard auto-poisoners is a great way to launch us towards that being the counter to AP spam.

I do like the idea you suggested in this thread, a move that piercing kills two protectors and nullifies revenges. It would be a nice addition to go alongside the strategy of adding protectors into the enemy team so then you can either bypass them or wipe them out very effectively. However, I think true hit in general achieves everything we need achieved.

With regards to AP spam still being used by a fair number of people in PvP… it will take time for the meta to settle. This update brought a huge number of changes.

Cani is at least dead (for now)

I think underdog should be 130tu it’s too much of a nerf by putting it at 160tu

+9 will make it’s TU optimal

Oh I forgot bout that