[Need Feedback] 2 Things About Current META

Neo Monsters
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Hey guys, how are you doing?

Dev team would like to know community’s opinion on couple things we observed in the current meta. It may not be an issue for top players, but please think it from the angle of mid players or majority :wink:

  1. Team Turn
    A successful Team Turn often decides the game. Are they easy to remove or the problem is more on the protection from the other support monsters?

What do you think about giving Team Turn a TU cost, so that Lavaronix and Mechaviathan cannot spam Give Turn right after that. It could be relatively low, like 50 or 70.

  1. Stun, more precisely Shocking Entrance
    Same as Team Turn, a successful Shocking Entrance can change the game, especially pair it with Pullback move. There are couple ideas:
  • Change Poison Revenge to Unmovable for the 3 old Shockers.
  • Reduce the amount of secs Shocking Entrance stuns. (Stunning Entrance is 80, Stun Flash is 100, Shocking Entrance can be 120)
  • Whenever a monster gets stunned to 400TU, it dies immediately, except Stun Absorber and Broken Heart(it dies at 200TU).

Please kindly share your opinion :hugs: We will keep doing our best to present a fun, healthy and balance gameplay to our players.

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Team Turn, I propose to restrict it to 1 give turn before you can use it or can be used if 2 or more monsters are above 100TU. For the shockers, 120 stun is ok but I don’t agree with unmovable, the idea is only to support and come back at the end for more support. We already have enough stun absorbers available especially for new players, its only a matter of team building.

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This might be radical but:

Remove Team Turn (and maybe even Give Turn) entirely.

This would make the game much more skill based as players would have to pay even more attention to TU

@Dev_VKC

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Good idea as well

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Unmovable self for shockers. They can only sendback themselves but can’t be by other monsters

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I think the better way is to push Time Freeze.

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Not a valid solution, they’ll just find a way to get rid of the time freeze monster.

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Excessive Stun counter and stun coversat now limit Stun much. Please don’t change stun anymore

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The heck is excessive stun counter and converter? 1st time I heard that

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Stun counter và stun coversat

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If someone has regalion/huskygeon, dealing with team turn becomes easy.

But since lot of mid/majority don’t have those 2 exclusive monsters, i think handling with team turn monsters is quite hard.

Restricting GT with first 70 seconds since its first turn will be good.
Will make it tricky for any player to take advantage & dominate.

° For shockers, I think having unmovable will really nerf the stun setup :joy::rofl:
I’d suggest a better solution as you have said the phrase high risk high rewards,

Why not have a 50 seconds restriction on sendback since first turn, also make stun tu to 120, that will make them more balanced,
And high risk for using shockers.

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A possible idea I have is that TT can’t be used until 100sec has passed since the first monster’s turn, though it could be a bit too excessive.

@Xyzencross I generally agree with your consensus regarding shocking entrance monsters.

@NMEGaryOak I disagree with removing GT entirely; it helps bring a stunned monster back into the game, as well as further your plays.

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I should remind that team turn and give turn are essential when it comes to Pve, take that out and the alot of the newer players will find the game alot harder especially when it gets to late game content. I like the 70 tu suggestion although i doubt it would help since opponent can clear any monster that gets their turn before their give turn monster.

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Hmmm… interesting ideas.

Here are my thoughts:

You are correct that a team turn will decide a game in a lot of cases. However, there are cases where it doesn’t. Typically when a Team Turn decides a game it’s caused by the supporting monsters around it being able to do a lot with a single extra turn.

The best current defense against team turn is protected time freeze, and simply making sure that the enemy when they team turn is not able to kill a large amount of stuff.

If we define the concept tempo as “move advantage”, then a single team turn is a ticking bomb that when it gets it’s turn, will generate a 4 tempo advantage on the enemy team.

Additional tempo can be gained through killing enemy monsters before they get their turn.

This is why roaring entrance is so strong, and the reason why stuffing jawshank, chromera, icefang into every team works. Because they are an unavoidable +1 tempo advantage.

This leads into the shocking entrance discussion as well. The main thing about shocking entrance is conditional tempo that requires you to build a team in a specific way.

As such nerfing core monsters like shocking entrance only serves to reduce meta diversity. If you look at shocking entrance teams, then you will notice that they go all in on getting their stun off on the correct, non-stun immune monsters in the enemy team.

There are many teams that don’t run any shocking entrance at all. Also, unmovable isn’t the end all, be all of preventing a stun lock. This was shown even when motordragon was nerfed. People would bring along atrahasis, hellfox in order to resurrect the motordragon and put even more shells in the enemy team, even past the first few(hellfox, atrahasis with motor can put 15 shells into an enemy team right now).

If you just directly nerf shocking entrance, then you’re more just nerfing one kind of team. As such I would say, if you think that stun teams are too dominant, then the reduction to 120 is probably all you need.

I will also point out that monsters with tranquilizing entrance are far more of a problem right now. Given that a successful tranquilizing entrance will deny an opponent around 7-8 tempo, with stun absorbers not being a sufficient counter. If you’re running a stun absorber then you will miss out on maybe 10-12 tempo. A crazy game losing amount. If you want to talk about game ending stuff, motor and tranquilizing entrance is far more of a problem then shocking entrance monsters are.

A shocking entrance nerf like that would be a motor buff, because then it would be easier to stun shells without killing them. Just going to point out.

As for team turn, a team turn is a very very large liability when time freeze is on the field. I would say that you have 2 options, both of which lead to different metas:

  1. Don’t nerf team turn. Add several more accessible time freeze monsters ti the game. Make running a team turn rather than a material risk(meaning it getting killed by a chromera) a tempo based risk, where running one requires that you take into account that sometimes, you won’t be getting that 4 tempo that the legendary team turn monsters generate.

The downside to this meta is it could lead to a case of time freeze teams, and team turn teams. Hard to say past that how the meta will develop.

  1. Nerf team turn. This means you guys would have to be careful. If you nerf it too badly then well, we won’t see them anymore. Currently most team turn monsters are required to be heavily protected with stuff like times up, chrono killer existing.

Nerfing team turn can lead to 2 possible metas. The first of which would be one that has no team turn at all, and the second of which would be EVEN MORE TURTLY. Meaning, dusicyon and several protectors in order to protect that team turn further. This second meta can however be solved by making dragulus(awakened form) more accessible.

I will also point out that simply improving the rate of which people can awaken mythics will shake up the meta drastically as well.

Hope this helps.

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Interesting. I used to play TT in my FL in PvP for many seasons. I removed it recently because it was getting killed by Dolphreeze more times than I liked.

I moved it to the Backline instead of FL and it got killed 70% of the time before it’s first move. Made me consider removing it entirely. I don’t really view it as a big threat, but it can decide matches on occasions. No where near as shocking entrance though. That can be very very broken. If they enter at the wrong time and pair them with Geomagnus. Good by entire team.

Having said all that I can live with both being nerfed or not nerfed. I don’t care to much.

I would prioritise Shocking before TT.

I can’t think of a way to Nerf TT without making it to weak to be in the team. Plenty of Chrono killers around and “times tup” is in every top team. BUT your suggestion could be reasonable @Dev_VKC not letting it give turn straight after a team turn. It would ruin PVE a bit though… which brings me to:

Again…I suggest having separate restrictions for PvP and PvE. It will solve EVERYTHING. All these changes same as the sleep Nerf enhance PvP but damage PvE. This is player discrimination:) why should people that enjoy PVE and hate PvP be punished because of PvP players?

I would say that protectors are crap as they are. They barely protect. Don’t Nerf them. Except diamond😁

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Couldnt agree more.

I would like to add that stun has alway been a part of the scissors rock paper meta of this game. With the high amount of available counters, stun has been kept in control very well recently. It also gives every player the possibility to protect his team from stun effects and makes stun protection an important part of team building at the same time. Basically exactly like it should be. Succesfully protecting your team from stun is simply a job you have to get done if you want to build a succesful team because of the way the generell meta works.

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One more thing in regards to this though. I remember when I faced a TT in the FL in my very first PvP battle when you guys were asking for Beta testers for the new PvP last year.

I got slaughtered because I didn’t even know what happened when he used TT. I was a newbie and now mid player. I didn’t have an issue with it back then and don’t now. It was inspiring. Same when I faced BB spam. Made me better. I think new players need to toughen up and not expect to much.

Same for shocking entrance. BTW… it would be fair to note that the legend shop has TT and Shocking entrance right now. Newbies need patience and they will get them as well.

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Another +1 for this

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You aint mid tier, you’re a top player now boi

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Thanks for the vote of confidence but not really. Anyway, back on topic!