The stun problem

[Z19Kiwi]

Theres a passive called stun counter. It counters stun.

[Unown]

I invite you to take this conversation to the DMs please. I wrote my one reply to you and stopped there because this is what I wanted to avoid.

[Dev_VKC]

Thank you for the feedback, guys. We love some of the ideas, and we will definitely give them a try.
Unfortunately, the next update is coming soon, so we will not be able to include the changes in the upcoming update.

However, we will certainly make an attempt to implement them in the update following the upcoming one. Thank you for your understanding and support.

[Tanbeer]

Please buff Arachnodrake

[Unholy_Prem]

Do something about def buffs plz

[Killerdog]

Sorry that this thread was a lot to go through!

To make it clear my personal opinion for ideas to “fix” the problem:

1. Any monster stunned over 250s cannot be stunned again until after their next turn.
2. Add the move stun reversal to future/existing high speed or roaring entrance monsters, even super epics. E.g. a mythic could be a stun converter with it while a SE has just high speed or roaring entrance.

Stun reversal (70TU) - give turn to all teammates that have been stunned and not had a turn since being stunned.

Note for (1): this means stun absorbers will often be stunned just once, then will stop your team being stunned at all until it gets a turn. That way each type of stun absorb passive still has its place in the game and the current monster designs should still make sense.

[Coltraz]

I would be cautious about putting some max TU restrictions, because it would require to measure each stun applied to the monster.
As a Nyx enjoyer I often make enemy monsters pushed for 300, 400 tu in the queue, without using any stun monsters in the team, I just don’t want to get put in a position while my lineup gets heavily nerfed due to those TU restrictions in the battle queue.

[ItsSherlock]

@Killerdog

Sorry that this thread was a lot to go through!

Can’t you for once not be the absolute Dev super simp

@Killerdog

Any monster stunned over 250s cannot be stunned again until after their next turn.

250 is too much. 150 would be ideal, everything above 200 is way too much.

@Killerdog

Stun reversal (70TU) - give turn to all teammates that have been stunned and not had a turn since being stunned.

This only works if it cannot be canceled by Bastia. We already have dual rescuing give turn and it has failed to have any significant impact on Stun lock. Bastia is now a standard pool myth and the first form is more than enough to keep the stun lock going. So any solution based on an entrance is DOA if it can be canceled by Bastia.

[ItsSherlock]

You can relax as Nyx will be nerfed into the ground anyway when the stun nerf will finally happen.

[TNCGodZeus]

@TNCGodZeus

Since we’re talking a bit about stunning, I’d like to know what the community thinks about some ideas I’ve had for a long time.

1 - After receiving a stun, this monster will be immune to stum abilities until its next turn.

2 - Set max stuns for example after 250 seconds each stun will fail

Of course this would only be set for PVP , since in pve we need to stun for some events.

@Killerdog @LemonSqueezy @Dev_VKC I would like to know what you think about this.

Any mod is free to post this post to the new mechanics thread or whatever thread they think is correct

I had suggested something similar some time ago, I don’t think I knew how to explain it well at the time. @unknown He has said it much clearer now, happy that the developers are finally going to do something about it

[PurpleHeart]

@Killerdog

Add the move stun reversal to future/existing high speed or roaring entrance monsters, even super epics. E.g. a mythic could be a stun converter with it while a SE has just high speed or roaring entrance.

Amazing idea but to make it viable we need a bastia nerf to were she dont effect roaring entrences so the monsters with the move acctuly get half a chance to use the move before the stun lock 4 sweepers just kills it

[Killerdog]

@ItsSherlock

Can’t you for once not be the absolute Dev super simp

Hahaha I guess it can be read like that. I just pity any Dev who has to read through a long thread and try to figure out what to make of all the opinions. Also, I appreciate whenever a Dev ventures outside the bug reports thread and into one which takes a time commitment to read through.

@ItsSherlock

250 is too much. 150 would be ideal, everything above 200 is way too much.

If it was 150 then we’d have to rebalance timestrike. Plus, that’s literally ANY stun which goes onto an enemy so it would mean most stun is pointless to place anywhere near another stunner in your team. It would probably kill stun as a strategy, making it only a mechanic you can use spaced out in your team.

What we want to tackle is specifically stun lock. Also, I think it’s very fair for someone to get advantage from a couple of stunners in a row… just that they’re not going to get more than ~300s of free time before those monsters will be back in play (somewhat like sleep).

@ItsSherlock

This only works if it cannot be canceled by Bastia.

The fixation on Bastia is a bit extreme in my opinion. I mean, you could throw the move on a 99% speed monster then even if they have Bastia they’ve got to line things up properly to deal with it (harder to do when you can’t skip behind enemies). Also, if Bastia is the one thing that will stop the comeback then the opponent could identify they’re facing a stun lock team and focus on taking out the Bastia then knowing they’ve got the stun reversal monster to fix things later on.

[Coltraz]

Enlighten me how Nyx and stun nerf are related, I’ve seen noone use her in any setup other than trying my own Nyx + sleep team. I am sure they won’t touch her before she comes back soon to sell as many of her as they can.

[PurpleHeart]

@Killerdog

Also, if Bastia is the one thing that will stop the comeback then the opponent could identify they’re facing a stun lock team and focus on taking out the Bastia then knowing they’ve got the stun reversal monster to fix things later on

Yo KD im sorry but i gotta ask. Have you ever acctuly fought a stun lock team? Caus the bastia is not the first monster to enter its the last. So when it enters your already at 700-1000 secs

[ItsSherlock]

Yeah, and all Bastia needs to do is sit there. Sometimes people even skip with it behind enemy monster because the passive is OP enough to secure the win. Any entrance solution that can be canceled by Bastia is completely unable to fix the problem

[NMEduck]

@Killerdog

Also, if Bastia is the one thing that will stop the comeback then the opponent could identify they’re facing a stun lock team and focus on taking out the Bastia then knowing they’ve got the stun reversal monster to fix things later on.

This part genuinely confuses me more than anything else that’s been said on this thread so far

[ItsSherlock]

It only makes sense if someone hasn’t faced a stun lock team at the highest PvP level. Then you don’t know that the Bastia always enters last.

I mean, you could also deduct it by applying logic. If Bastia is on the field before the stun happens, it would cancel the stun of the stun locker.

[Aeronomatron]

@Killerdog

The fixation on Bastia is a bit extreme in my opinion. I mean, you could throw the move on a 99% speed monster then even if they have Bastia they’ve got to line things up properly to deal with it (harder to do when you can’t skip behind enemies). Also, if Bastia is the one thing that will stop the comeback then the opponent could identify they’re facing a stun lock team and focus on taking out the Bastia then knowing they’ve got the stun reversal monster to fix things later on.

… huh? That makes zero sense, only Unown with his looting team has a chance at killing Bastia before you’re already stunned to the high heavens. And 99% speed is what, 30sec entry? All they need is to knock the unit back or have the stunlockers favorite unit, doomgoo, ready to attack. It’s not hard to counter even the fastest units. The only way I see this possibly working is if they cannot take damage until they’ve had their first turn, and then the rest of the moveset will have to be ■■■■ to compensate for such a strong passive+ recovery move and we are left with another Houdini type unit that’s so niche it won’t be used

[ItsSherlock]

I think an entrance with the addition: „this entrance cannot be canceled“ wouldn’t hurt Bastia at all. If it’s a support monster designed to counter stun lock it has a clear purpose and wouldn’t take anything away from Bastias strength

[LemonSqueezy]

The devs said they’d do something about it. I don’t think we need to comment straight afterwards with our own personal opinions to try and get the last word.