The stun problem

Neo Monsters
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So I have been using my pve stunlock team this ranked and I can say stunlock is still so fricking broken. I have always said that, but now when using it myself for fun I’ve sorta got more thoughts about it. Stunlock has always been a problem but never has been nerfed to an acceptable level. This discourages creativity, when you know that you either run the same 30-40 stun immunes that you always have ran or build something for fun but then get stunned, even with tons of stun protection. It’s very discouraging to run any monster without stun immune, and it’s not fun to always be forced to protect yourself so hard for such vicious strategy. There is no other counter to stunlock other than stun immune; trying to add monsters like houdinoid don’t help a lot.

Just to put things into perspective, the team I use now only requires 2 stunable monsters and it can wreak havoc, that leaves me 8 slots to deal with the enemy’s first 5-6 usually, and most of the time it’s free stunlock, no need to even try to do anything. It’s just so broken that some people never even have 1 turn and this all boils down to the one thing that enables it all: stunlock. With confidence, I can say that if stun was not so oppressive some things would not be so problematic. But saying that, I also want to add a few stuff that greatly makes stun better.

  • First thing I’m going to add is stunable tokens. The reason you only need 2 stunable monsters to succeed in stun is because leira and ldiefaeth, they make it so so so much easier. But I know stun is the bigger problem. Motor used to be this broken before shells got broken heart (and most tokens to that matter [1]). Going on…

  • Backbite, backstab, etc… (all moves that can kill allies). Yes they can help you to kill stunned monsters too, but these moves pave the way to stunlock, and there’s so many of them out there now too. This allows for the use of aggressive roaring entrance chrono killers just for them to be removed by ally killing moves the moment they’re useless. I would suggest these moves get some restriction, for example the owner of the move can’t kill itself, and the move can’t be used back to back. The worst ones are the ones with no use limit, these can be abused to hell.

  • Bastia. Yeah I said houdinoid doesn’t help a lot, but when you get stunned into bastia there’s nothing that can help you. I don’t think bastia should cancel all entrances.

The points I added above are not entirely problematic things in the game. I think most of it can stay the same if the enabler gets a nerf. For example token monsters [1], they are great disruption units. If stun wasn’t so oppressive I believe tokens would never have got broken heart. Backbite is a bit of a grey area, but at the end of the day it allows you to kill dead weight to setup a better lineup after stunlocking. Bastia is just… bastia, no need to add more to that.

One solution I have always thought is if a monster get stunned certain amount they gain stun tolerance. Let’s say there’s a limit of 150TU, if a monster get stunned for this amount they gain stun immunity for the time they are in game, and this is a general passive on every monster except for stun absorbers. And don’t get me wrong here, I don’t mean that if you are at 140TU and celeshine does short stun the monster gains stun immune, but the total amount of stun received. So in this example celeshine can do short stun 10 times before the monster gets immunity, no matter if they are at 200tu or 1000tu from before.

Stunlock really needs a check, because stun is only a problem when you put 4-5 stunners in a row to put enemy to 500tu. With stun tolerance added I don’t really see it being broken. Monsters like gloreonix can still enter twice before tolerance would be set on, but you can always kill the monsters that have stun tolerance if you want to stun more.

That being said, having 2 stunable monsters in your 14/16 stun immune team just to be stunned and have the remainder of your team not do anything, them setting up to their 4 last monsters, killing 1 by 1, leaving 3 or 4 stunned always, and not get a single turn after the stun. This kills the fun in the game. I feel sorry for everyone I did manage to loot… while not even using an optimised pvp team, but rather my pve team…

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I completely agree.

@Dev_VKC it’s crazy it’s gone on for so long. It’s so oppressive when it comes to team building. Because we have to rely so heavily on stun immunes.

A simple purify or lava entrance recovers all 3 or 4 sleeping monsters. There is no stun lock equivalent.

It’s always been Neo’s greatest limitation of creativity.

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I agree with you. They almost ruin the fun of game. Dev’s must do something asap. But I don’t agree with u r points. Then whats the use of stun martyr.

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It would still work. Keeps your stunable monsters not stunned and it also falls into the stun absorber section. They would not gain stun tolerance whatsoever

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I couldn’t agree more. It’s time to finally find a solution for Neos most toxic strategy. It requires 0 thought put into a team and until this day has no real effective counter. On top 90 % of existing stun protection is useless.

To add to the points @Unown mentioned: A big part of the problem has always been how easy it is to remove stun protection. Icefang comes in, immediately gets a turn and can repulse any monster on the field, even if it’s hidden behind a protector. Leira almost immediately gets a turn, can turn anything into a stunnable token. The f*cking Spikies can knock back anything on super high speed. And the list goes on. If someone wants to stun you, there’s barely another way to avoid it than to go full stun immune. Everything else can be removed with relative ease.

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Why u left disord

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Please stay on topic

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That’s right, it’s the same when I played the vinegazer setup in pvp at that time with stun very few people could come back because this setup can turn off immune stun spam even though there is camo spam + shield or 4 immune stun spam on the field without using oni blade because oniblade is impossible penetrates camo, couter is just a bypass ap or stun ziber which is protected by AP, my opinion about stun is crazy, it can’t be denied

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how can you say that, it’s the most normal tactic in the game. it allows you to keep a certain balance between the big spammer myths. anyone with a little experience counters the stun lock just with 3 absorb or a blocker. Of course this requires building in such a way that they are very close to each other but there’s really no problem with that. especially since as you said yourself, this team has nothing original, absolutely nothing. Just by seeing a fl I already know what my guy is going to do which will make things even easier. this strategy is normal and only harms those who don’t know how to deal with it, that’s all

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all of what you mentioned are relatively very easy to counter, icefang just pushes back to the next one so you can very well prepare accordingly, the hedgehogs are blocked by the gravity field and you just have to eliminate the green for me to become yellow a dead weight without forgetting the fact thatyou must have your second protection between 6 and 7 and of course with a backbite in the fl, leira like Gabrielle do not have a roaring entry it is very easy to eliminate them before he gets a turn , there is no lock configuration that is difficult to managenone.

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on this point I agree oniblade is the only one who can really guarantee a Lock stun it’s very difficult to come back from two oOo but not impossible if IT has the good monster in 5th

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Because I’m running a pve stunlock team right now and there isn’t a lot of teams that can deal with it. I have been stunlocking with comfort and ease this pvp/ranked, even teams that only had 2 stunable monsters. 2 stunable monsters out of the 9 that I had to deal with, and for the most part I only have the need to deal with the fl and maybe the 5th and 6th monster. It’s clearly broken as ■■■■, large chains of stun should have some deterrent. It really doesn’t take much skill to abuse playerbases weak stun protection, especially when the teams with decent stun protection cant even deal with such strategy. Which is the argument to my point: It really isn’t a good game experience, it ruins creativity.

Sherlock couldn’t have said this better →

The only good example (which does not use stun immunes on every slot) of this I’ve seen is ducks. That team is unstunable, at least more than not. Most, almost every team, is stunlockable if it only has 2 stunable monsters.

It enters at around 5tu at +9… that is pretty much a roaring entrance.

My point isn’t to remove stun from the game, but remove stunlock rather.

And to add at last, based on the previous arguments in the tier list thread, I will not reply to you after this one because I know whereabouts your level is in this game, and these comments just make it so obvious.

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Incoming post from @King_Death to defend @Cesar any second now :rofl:

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This is the most funny thing I’ve read in a while here.

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I’m guessing you run stun or full stun immune spam

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you don’t know my level in the game and I see that you have no idea what a discussion (debate) is. This also proves a few things that I had noticed in you but I won’t say what that is. has nothing to do with monsters.
to come back to your UC team that you use in PvP, people on discord published it and were “outraged by this team” they could not protect it and another described it as I extrapolate a little being “from the ■■■■”. This does not mean that it is something very powerful just because you have to face people who cannot face it, there are many others who do not lose against it. moreover your team has a few things that are a bit original which at the time no one expects it to be stunning, so this effect of surprise can play a lot in your favor (it’s on this principle that this base my teams) which at first glance are never reallycreated to seem to stun someone

What sadness, I see that you always have the same ■■■■ in what serves you as head. All stupid comments you do are useless and never constructive. I invite you to not answer me if you do not intend to submit your arguments where still talking about the game :clown_face:

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no I only use gaia, spectrefox, Angel and bloom and it’s more than enough so that no one can distract me. not even DC who to my knowledge are the best in the art of stunning people, the only one who managed to do it was a spammer from doomgoo I made a mistake and he took advantage of that in addition to having played very well with dusi and 3 doomgoo I had no chance of winning it’s the only onefor a very long time who put me in such a situation and it was two seasons ago

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I agree that Bastia is a massive problem. And there are also many other monsters that just have dumb moves that create nothing but a huge imbalance.
I would add Lemon to that list. You get a sleep all entrance and then shield your whole team, it’s a huge advantage at virtually zero risk. Same with Maeve, instant shield all.
There are lots of monsters being released that are breaking the game, rendering old and not so old legendaries/mythical obsolete.
On top of that, most of the stun protection monsters got limited the last two seasons.
Just played a match with a Japanese guy who’s in the top 10 that stunned my whole team into an infinite loop with Voidress using Ritual IV to kill stun revenge self duplicating monsters and used looting charge to eat through my whole team, why are these kind of moves allowed? I don’t see many people continuing playing if things carry on like that.

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Trust me, this is not the direction you want to lead this discussion toward LMFAO

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Goo is the problem.

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