A team that’s been carefully built solely for pvp, these teams can pretty much stun anyone, or at least will be really hard to not get stunned by something like this
You go full aggression in the first 6, then you fill up with icefang, Leira, Aoi etc. to eliminate the non stunnable stuff you couldn’t kill. It’s almost impossible to not get stunned because those monster instantly get a turn, go around protectors (aoi, Icefang) ignore hold ground/shield (leira). You exclusively target stun protection. Most stun protection is ■■■■ and dies to killer moves. It’s a strategy so easy it’s laughable.
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I just take him as example for “single stun effect”. And I feel like it kinda unfair single target stun somehow get punish too .
And my previous idea about “Transformator” is similiar like unown idea "some monster get stun resistance if he get stunned for “x” second.
And then I have question for @LemonSqueezy about stun absorber If we Aply “stun tolerance” for them.
If he already good ? Why he tier E pvp then? The reason so many player ask him to get buffed bcoz he is very bad compare to another myth and get powercreeped everytime new stun counter/converter release.
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I know I’m a bit late saying this, but at the start of this thread some of the posts made less experienced people feel like they’re idiots and their opinions don’t matter. It doesn’t matter if the experienced people know better, they shouldn’t treat others like this. This is meant at no one in particular, just a comment for the future. We don’t want to push away people or make them worried about sharing their opinions.
Could you please share the team you’re referring to with this thread? I think that context helps a lot with discussion.
My mind has gone here before. I think a better idea is to make a new move, specifically designed for countering stun:
Stun reversal (70TU) - give turn to all teammates that have been stunned and not had a turn since being stunned.
This is a more versatile move for countering stun as it could be used by monsters that are already on the battlefield or ones with high speed / roaring entrance. It also dodges all the combo stuff with putting your own monsters on high TU, so doesn’t need any restrictions added. It’s also (basically) fully dependent on the enemy team stunning you so it should be “weak enough” to put on accessible monsters (aka super epics).
Replying generally to this thread…
It’s nice to see that the discussion here is specifically about stun lock being a problem, rather than stun itself. We’ve at least advanced to the point where people are seemingly happy enough about stun in the game. It’s just one last hurdle which is giving us ways to recover from a stun lock more easily. I completely agree this is an aspect that hasn’t been properly addressed. Also, I think a point that should be made very clear to the Devs is that there are way too many ways to set up a stun lock that we can’t handle the problem by nerfing particular combos. The correct approach needs to be ways to “undo” the stun lock, like how sleep lock can be undone very easily.
This is the correct solution. Nerfing things like doomgoo, bastia, backbiters etc… does not really help, stunlock will still be possible and there will always be new combos used. Maybe a little less effective, but it always comes back to the point I keep repeating: It’s not a good game experience.
This doesn’t work, unless its like 140% speed. (Bastia loves to cancel entrances lmao) Or a passive that does not allow this monster to be targeted until it has had it’s first turn, while also having camo. But they will need to add it to bunch of old monsters as well, like how lava entrance was just to undo a sleep lock. And yet, If you get stun locked with yin/yang it has time freeze, so you wont be able to use it anyway… Oh and the team I’m currently using abuses looting charge, this strategy completely takes away every chance for comeback once you are setup for the stun. And still, I don’t find bastia, backbiters, chimunka, doomgoo and all the common stun lock set monsters problematic, they’re mostly used there because they are most effective in such setups.
There are loopholes to get around anything we could possibly design. I mean, knockback next messes up basically everything. However, when you make it awkward enough for people to stun lock then all you end up with are specific combos that are a problem… so those can be handled case-by-case with things like nerfs.
If all we’re going to do is point out the specific way to counter or get around the proposed solution then we’ll be talking forever and never come up with something productive.
I still think stun exhaust is a way. It will at least stop stunning the same 4 monsters indefinitely. That’s the issue I have with stun lock. Based on the battles I’ve had, there has been very low effort to actually manage to stun maybe 80% of the time, a simple knockback sometimes is enough, sometimes i have to tinker a bit with yinyang and leira to get 2+ stunable monsters, sometimes it’s tough and obviously haven’t won every battle. I have to say it’s way too easy to stunlock…
I think there is an element of both, but if the devs go down this route and this route only, it has to be accessible. Not just on one mythic, but like Lava Entrance, Purify etc.
Also it might be hard to get the timing, so it would be good if it can recover monsters who have been stunned, not simply on high TU because they put themselves there due to their own moves. That way it can’t be abused, and also the stunner can’t wait for the opponent to fall just under the required TU.
EG they cause havoc from 400 TU to 200 and then wait for the monsters to slip just under 200 TU where the recovery no longer works. (Using 200 as an arbitrary number). I’d want the move to recognise the monsters have been stunned heavily and recover them wherever they are.
Since Bastia is one of the most common monsters played with stun lock any entrance that can be canceled is a Dead on arrival solution and not worth discussing
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Better give this Mon killer immunity or it’ll just be more chrono killer food. Might as well also give it stun counter.
The problem is that there are lots of dumb moves that will always create a problem when you try to solve another. First the monsters that add tokens should not even exist. What’s the point of that if not stopping the opponent from attacking back?
I played a game where I ended up with something like 15 token monsters added to my team. Not only it wastes A LOT of time, but it also takes the whole fun out of the match.
So let’s say it can be useful, there should be a max of 3 token monsters that should be allowed to be added to enemy’s team or something like that.
You can have Jackolene and Motordragon and with a little setup end up sending 12 tokes to the enemy team, it’s ridiculous.
So first thing I would say is stop the token monsters from being so disruptive and useless.
Make it so that if they exist, they are merely used for regaining some match control, not completely oppressing the opponent.
Clearly there’s a big problem with Leira and Ldiefaeth that need to be addressed first.
Secondly, all the monsters that punish fast frontlines paved the way for fast knockbackers to thrive, as many teams now use slower frontlines
How about,
Max stun is 300tu for each monster and become Stun Immune after that. (This is additive so cant be abused)
*Stun Abs threshold is 500tu
Almost all of the token monsters are stun immune.
Maybe release some stun counter monsters from restrictions.
Right, but I think stun lock teams will find that a little too easy to adapt to, in a similar way to what Lemon mentions here…
I know I’m doing something similar there where I’m saying “but that doesn’t work in X case”, but I honestly think it’s easier for a stun lock team to adapt to needing to periodically stun than it is to have ways to counter entrance passives, give turn moves, etc.
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Not if the exhaust triggers after 150tu total stun. This removes the possibility to run 2-3 shockers and 2-4 stun bombers in a row, to reach staggering 500s or more. You can still stun again but not the same 4 monsters.
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I don’t think it’s for us to alter ideas based on what’s easier for the devs to implement tbh. I think we just need to put the ideal scenario forward and it’s up to them to see how close they can get to it.
Am I misunderstanding how this exhaust works? I was thinking it’s that they gain stun immunity until they drop below 150s, then can be stunned again. Or is it a cap on the amount of seconds they can be pushed back until their next turn?
@LemonSqueezy I wasn’t talking about code implementation. I think the bit you’re replying to is the conversation topic of: person A suggests X, person B points out a way the stun lock player could get around that. What I said in my last post was that I think it’s easier for a stun lock player to adapt to periodically stun their opponent than it is for them to build a team that can get around every counter to their plan that exists (if we suggest a couple more like this “rescuing team turn” style idea).
Gain permanent stun immunity/stun immunity till next turn that monster gets/temporary stun immunity (long enough to get turn again), Anything like this. You would have to spread out the stun with such system, and not put them all back to back. Large amount of stun is no joke, infinite stun is worse.
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This is what I meant too…
Basically, applying Quell mechanic into stun mechanic.
Each monster that gets stunned will have Stun Threshold 300tu (same like sleep), after that they will gain Stun Immunity for the match, and this is additive so it cant be abused.
Its literally in my main post
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Lol, sorry I didnt bother to read bcs of the mess…