Looking back on the whole thread, it seems that I was in a position of ignorance when it comes with Orca, having left the game around the time of its release. Granted, I still have a bit of an issue with Instant True Hit as I feel that move on it’s own is a bit too much. (Much like Instant Toxic Killer is a bit much for Glaciaron) I’ll gladly take the L for all of my points except for ITH.
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This is fine . Since raw blood fury is 100tu + . There are tons of times up … Glaci with instant is what makes it an immediate threat in most cases … padri is different story .
I really really hope they don’t ruin Glaciaron caught up in this instant true hit concerns .
I’m not saying you’re bias, but don’t you run a full mythics team though? Your experience is a tad bit different from ours.
The protectors I run are 2 legends, one 2 star and Arachna being the only protector myth. Plus I played with an account worse than my opponents most of the time for years so I know what it’s like. I still think protectors are definitely viable.
Back when AP spam was meta I ran a raw team, I used diamond lock the day it was possible and now I have a P lock team. From that experience I have a good idea how it can fail.
If the community has trouble I’d recommend this:
- Use protectors that are multi purpose. So there’s no arguing, NON mythic examples include
Aegis has give turn which keeps it useful.
Skele makes it harder to set up with gravity field and it can use Twin death sentence. Also if it dies the rockoid causes problems for raw if you’ve used it before the raw hits.
Tort has drain survivor.
Grovo has duel GT and pull pack
Voodoo has poison massacre
Stag aka the devil has sleep all and KBN
Nebel and Cosmo can switch friend
Canniswyrm can Knockback
Grizzleguard has attacks, a GT entrance and Bloodmove
The SE bull has toxic killer and other moves
Gearcroc is a stun absorber.
They’re just the ones I can think of right now
Plenty of protectors there will give the opponent huge difficulty protector locking. Not sure why players have not looked at the protectors they use instead of jumping on the forum.
Interestingly It seems if someone is running a lot of rockoid variants, they are far more at risk and so they should be for running such low cost.
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Everyone should use something that can remove deadweight early on the in the team. Geo Magnus is a good example. But anything will do. For years I’ve almost felt like half the point of the game is to create dead weight, leaving mons that can’t hurt you. Clear them.
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Use disruption. As I said before, it’s very rare the opponent has a full team of raw. I’m the only player I know who does that, but that is that team’s entire strategy. A knockback, repulse or KBN can mean that the enemy now has non raw on the field and they have to attach the protector.
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it’s unlikely the opponent will go full raw straight from the frontline, so target them as they come in. Nova is almost always #1 priority
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My point wasn’t that your protectors are better, but that your sweepers are.
If Ahurizard can’t one shot your monsters with RAW Throw as they come in, he won’t protector lock you, same with Dusi’s RAW CS, Orca’s everything and so on. As a result the number of monsters that can effectively lock you out if greatly reduced, which is why I’m saying that your experience is different.
You did make a very good case for Aegis, but let’s be honest: the vast majority of those monsters just aren’t viable in any other situation of high level play.
I mean come on! Would you really risk fuelling a True Hit for Voodoom or Canniswyrm? I’m all for experimentation, but that’s just nonsense.
Not from my experience.
Special mention to Arachnadiva, Tortogeist, Nebelronix/Cosmodragon, Skeleviathan and Musashoid who have Death Revenge-like skills. That makes them much more viable because the only one you can really leave on the field (if you can bypass it, that’s it) is Musashoid. All the others are dangerous to leave on the field! That’s why you inevitably have to get rid of them and lose your sweeper or lose a random monster and have the whole enemy team shielded.
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In that cause, out of curiosity who goes full raw in their team?
Also, who goes full raw FL. I don’t see many at all.
Good for Mark and voodoo is good for poison. I just listed loads off the top of my head. There’s plenty of choice. Perhaps APs struggle more.
So your argument is purely for the frontline? Because that’s a different argument compared to protectors are dead overall. I don’t think worrying about true hit is a massive deal anywhere else in the team, as everything has a counter.
Your problem is that the 1 star or 2 star rockoids struggle and so they should, other protectors which I listed are fine. Perhaps not all suited for the frontline, but I’m not sure whether your argument is for the full team or not.
You always limit your team to just being poison so consider that.
I will continue to run protectors this PvP and we’ll see how I go. anyone who thinks I can get away with it because of a few mythics either doesn’t understand the game or is just throwing mud at the wall looking for excuses.
I can’t be bothered to argue on this anymore 
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Exactly. There’s loads of choice. Gear is used everywhere too.
Also taunt monsters like static.
I don’t understand, what makes Tortogeist, Nebelronix/Cosmodragon and Skeleviathan impossible to leave on the field?
Read my post above then. I list them there. Don’t bother debating something if you’re not going to read
Tortogeist has Drain Survivor and 400sec Novablast
Skeleviathan has Twin Death Sentence
Nebelronix/Cosmodragon keep cloning
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Taunt was a mistake
EDIT: except for Capybaragon
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@DevilsMisfortune sorry I don’t mean to sound aggressive.
I’ve only ever known you to run poison for your whole team. Rather than changing the game to suit your team, change your team to suit the game. Protectors are viable for sure. Raw hasn’t killed them.
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Full, only you and Mastermarco. Enough to lock however, pretty much everybody. As I said in the other OP almost all of the best monsters have RAW, and all they need is a good lock starter; with the best one being Orca, which I see in 2 matches out of 3. Ahurizard is great too and he’s in pretty much every match I find.
Neither is worth running. They are both worth testing in a different meta don’t get me wrong, but now if you risk running a protector now it better be an all-star.
I think I’ve explained my reason for saying that mythics help you in this case. Dismissing them like that just proves you have nothing to say on the matter.
Orca is for sure the biggest offender, but no, I mean everywhere in the team.
I already disagreed with you, clearly he’s got something more to add.
…or not.
By the time Tortogeist or Skeleviathan do something your team is already half way dead. There’s a reason why Survivor isn’t viable outside of combos.
Nebel and Cosmo clone once and just stay there. I’ll take that trade any day.
I do. I run poison because that’s what I like, but I also build around it to make it viable as the meta changes. I already have a new team I’m working on and will be ready to test run after a couple of extra 6s potions.
That doesn’t mean that I like how worthless protectors are in the current meta, so I’m proposing alternatives to the RAW buff.
Yo Torto got Megabomb
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So only 2 people fully lock. Not enough. For everyone else: You can’t lock for very long unless you go full raw from that point, otherwise it’s just a few bypasses, not a lock. The opponent will be able to get out of it
I’ve only had myths for one full season. The only addition between now and then is Orca as far as I’m aware. I dont see how 1.5 seasons is a dependence on them.
As I said; they switch out deadweight.
Let’s leave it at this, if you don’t like protectors then, don’t use them. I will continue to do so, and I’m sure many others in the community will too.
I will make a team with no myth sweepers. The only myth will be one myth protector and the rest 1-6 stars. I’ll run protectors in 3rd 4th and 5th and one later on. Let’s see how it goes
After how many deaths?
That’s like me saying that it makes no sense to ask for poison nerfs because I’m the only one that goes full poison.
How many is a few bypasses compared to a lock? Where would you say the threshold is?
No worries though. Testing what you’re saying as we speak.
I think that depends on the monsters themselves, it’s hard to say an exact number.
Out of curiosity though, how do you plan on testing this? Because my old team, the one with 2 protectors early game, still got a 80% win ratio so far this season, but that’s because the rest of the team works very well.