Nerfs, tweaks, buffs and a potato

Neo Monsters Neo Monsters General Discussions
1

Since an update is coming in not so long I wanted to share some of my feelings over some problems that I think deserve to be discussed. (Some of those “problems” may not seems like it for you.)

  1. My first complaint would be Deodragon’s SS being useable at the start of the match. I think it’s not really fair for a lot of players, most top 50 players can overcome it. But it takes a specific fl or monsters do so and it kills diversity in fl.
    Some ideas I read left and right on this forum that seemed really good:
  • Change quick charge to quick blast
  • 100 sec restriction from the monster’s first turn
  • Stealth is completely useless on deo, it could be changed to a single blast like what his earlier forms have.
  1. Rexotyrant and Kamishogun are too underpowered compared to the others sweepers. Look for one sec at delugazar, revenarchion, chromera, icefang, chronozeros and geomagnus’s move sets. Now look at Kami and rexo’s movesets. Done? All right, you can laugh at them now.

First things first, remove sudden death. It’s a stupid rng move that will always upset the receiver. I don’t know what could be given instead.
Second give them a passive, HG, poison immunity, unmoveable, stun immunity.
Their bloodmove could be changed or the TU could reduced. If it’s changed then make something new and interesting, if its TU is reduced to 100 it would a good niche I think.
Their SSs aren’t well balanced, rexo is random on the damage dealt and can leave a TT with some hp left. Just make sure it will kill tt every time. Kamishogun’s SS is worthless, give him something that will truly help him charge up.

  1. Excessive force increases the user’s overall damage, but the description of excessive force, at least in French, doesn’t specify that. Personally, I think it’s stupid anyway.

  2. Geomagnus’s backstab move’s tu is still too low, it needs to be at least 80. Backstab can be used 5 times, never runs out of targets and the SS gives perfect fodder while allowing an entrance a second time.

  3. The VP system in PVP is unfair and makes some rewards really hard to reach due to the grind it requires(the potion sitting at 7500 VP). Before it only took 40 wins to get 2, and now it’s 60 wins and lot of vp. Potions play such a big role in pvp that it shouldn’t so hard to reach.

  4. The amount of rare ingredient the newest monsters require to ultra evolve. I’m curious to know why some of them require so many rare items.

  5. The 1 second secret skills in general, just be careful with those. They’re always close to being completely op.

  6. Sanctallion and Cryokaizer. They’re just bad, nothing is good about them. Their passive can be use in pve but the epic stun revenge cloners are better for that(faster and they have stealth). Since link will be buffed it would be nice to buff them as well so they can boost the link strat further.

  7. Whale’s treasure. How did you manage to create an event worst than SOTF? This event is just awful. The reward system need to be look at a second time.

  8. A scroll down and up button in the rewards. Kocowind has been asking that for ages and I think he is starting to get tired of asking

  9. A duplicate = a potion of the same rarity, not a bonus on the monster.

  10. Are the test your team AI’s teams ever going to changed?

  11. Event reward monsters such as atlanteon, chimeraxus, thugturkey, and santabeast need to be slightly different from their elemental brothers, just like arbogias, dualdragon and the twinkiller bunny.

  12. We need more monsters to combo with toxic give turn. Right now we have only two monsters that benefits a lot from it(polaboss and abyss).

  13. Wolfrozor and viridizardon need a buff, wolf is a big one and viri a smaller one. Luc has been posting ton of suggestions for them, some are really good. Just ask him.

  14. Bahamuzar and Dolphoenix: Baha needs something for when his rockoids are gone, he can be stall fairly easily and becomes a huge dead weight without fodder. He could get something instead of ultraquake or summon swarm could useable more than once but with a tweak like only when all 6 rockoids have been used. Dolphoenix’s SS should be changed to summon trio but the cost should stay the same. He was an epic with legendary cost for over a year and doesn’t see a lot of use since his big buff.

  15. Protect focus needs to be seriously buffed. Only grovodeus is good and it’s because he is stun immune. I really don’t know what to do with the move protect focus.

  16. Shiny monsters are worthless. You will have to make them different from the original monsters or you’re scamming players with those.

Sorry for the long post here is a potato

Happy new year to the dev team.

2

Already said my piece about most of the issues you mentioned, question is did the devs look it up at the posts before? If not then I’ll be happy to provide my suggestion. Btw that quick blast idea was mine. :stuck_out_tongue: overall thanks Guwop, I hope the devs can address all these.

3

Not starting. I’ve already been tired of reporting anything.

4

I don’t know about the buffs and nerfs but I definitely like the potato

I believe that the buff I propose are needed, wolfrozor and viridizardon are consistently in the shadow of kong and galv. Rexo and kami are the least powerful sweeper in the game. Baha and doph are more selfish one tbh.

About the nerf, always a more sensible subject, I think deo’ss could be tweak. When it comes to geo, it’s just that he is so versatile and lacks weakness, personally I don’t think 80 sec backstab would impact him too much.

5

Bolstering it to 60 TU certainly didn’t faze him. And always consider that the vast majority of people running around with Geo will have him with a high bonus AND accelerated via talo/apollo.

6

Geo needs thirsty instead of fury thats all
Deo needs a Tu restriction to use quick charge deo TK TK TT gay FL need to finish once for all its not fair at all
Vp sistem on PVP its terrible bring back the old sistem but unable to lose points
Protect focus could have unique passives each other
Stun immun
Stun absorv
Hold ground
Shield entrance+stealth entrance…
Cryo sanctallion need speed buff to epic CD range
Blood clone next
Shield or stealth entrance
Instant atack boost
Risky heal for desperate bite
Lower tu on assisted moves too
Nebel/cosmo shield entrance with a speed buff and new SS for nebel
Rexo/kami sudden death need to go away replace it with stun pulse or cannibalize for rexo and backstab for kami
Kami SS could be toxic killer
Give then a passive they need it
Stunning entrance for rexo and stun revenge for kami could work

7

On the whole, a great thread mentioning many of the important points. However, whenever it comes to buff/nerf ideas everyone differs in opinion and some buff ideas are way too over the top. I’m going to weigh in here…

  1. Deo was really quite bad before he got his SS and he’s still lower than average in my opinion, especially when compared against other limited monsters. The 1s charge combined with his high speed is the major thing going for him and it’s great for charging him twice in 100s for a very powerful blast. I don’t think there’s and “problem” except for Deo FL. Maybe the Devs want this but when we have such heavy strategy throughout the game a Deo, TK, TK, TT front line is depressing to see.

I think the only “nerf” needed is a time restriction of no quick charge in the first 50s of the BATTLE. Stealth being turned into a single target blast is a great idea if Deo needs a buff given to it.

  1. Rexo and Kami are some of the very few bloodfury monsters in the game. They’re also not limited monsters so you can’t really expect them to be as strong as the likes of Geo. Timestrike is actually a very nice way to set them up, but I agree it’s not brilliant and neither is sudden death. Also, adding a secret skill massively boosts their cost which makes them compare even worse against the others.

I think adding stun immunity, HG or reducing TU on their skills would make them too much like a limited monster. I think they should be squishy and with the awesome bloodfury move as it is. However, sudden death could be changed into decent link move so they have good use in the right team and secret skill changed to only make them 14/15 cost.
E.g.
sudden death -> link stun pulse
Rexo SS = swift chrono killer
Kami SS = swift toxic killer

  1. It isn’t specified in the English either. What it does is ignore the enemy’s defence stat. It assumes it is 2500 defence or something like that.

  2. Completely agree, this is highly abusable. We either need a variety of counters to the insane entrance control Geo gives or his backstab needs nerfing to 80TU. Thankfully the Devs are fully aware of the issues with Geo so this should be addressed over the coming months I think.

  3. As someone who plays in the top tier of PvP the change to VP hasn’t affected me much. In fact, it takes fewer wins for me to get a legendary potion. I think the VP system is brilliant and exactly what PvP needed… but I know where you’re coming from. For people who aren’t getting lots of VP from each win they need better access to some of the rewards they could get before without crazy grinding.

Personally I think the legendary pot from wins should be brought down to 40 and the one from VP should remain where it is. There has to be good stuff in the high VP rewards to keep it worthwhile for players in the top tier to push all the way.

  1. I noticed this too. They’ve been doing some careful rebalancing of ingredients recently so I guess they’ve calculated they can make legendaries require more of the rare ingredients now without causing newer players problems.

7, 10, 12, 13 and 15) Agree!

  1. These guys aren’t good but I am highly against a speed buff. There are only so many buffs you can give a monster before they start becoming stronger than intended. I reckon what they need is simply stealthy entrance. They’re never going to be viable in PvP.

  2. Whale’s Treasure is a fun element-focused event but needs tweaks for sure. Firstly, the shortcut for level needs the ticket cost reduced from 30 to 10 so it becomes ticket-efficient. With that done then it’s very quick to get past the first 20 battles in each area. Then it’s a similar grind to SOTF but with more interesting battles.

The big change it needs is access to more of the rewards. Gems are great but we’d also like some rare gems, potions or ingredients. If the event gave more Finns and then the costs of each gem bundle went up exponentially we’d have a more realistic trade-off between gems and the other options.

  1. There are some interesting ideas flying around about these. I really like Luc’s idea of giving +2 to the monster you get a dupe of. I would extend this idea to say that if the monster is +9 already you should get a legendary potion and 5 gems. Super epic / epic dupes could be done similarly so you’d get the following…

Dupe of monster at +0-8:
Legendary = +2 bonus
Super epic = +2 bonus
Epic = +2 bonus
(Note: +8 monsters would only get +1 bonus)

Dupe of monster at +9:
Legendary = 6* potion + 5 gems
Super epic = 5* potion + 1 gem
Epic = 4* potion

  1. Toxic give turn is essentially a quicker give turn in many cases. It’s great to use alongside a poison immune monster like Chromera. In the long-term it should get more strong combos and possibly be turned into a strategy but there are already many uses of it. Poisoning your teammates is strangely useful!

  2. I don’t know how Baha stands against other legendaries but one horrible thing for throw teams is when a teammate gets knocked back. This seems like something Baha would struggle against lots. Perhaps an idea the Devs could play with is making summon swarm re-usable up to 2-3 times but put a restriction so it can only be used if there isn’t a rockoid at the back of your team.

I am a weird fan of Dolph. I haven’t rolled her but she’s a good draw in IC. Stun grenade is an immensely powerful move in lots of situations so the number of rockoids she can produce is critical. I don’t think she needs any more than 4 being produced by herself. What she needs is something viable for the long-game… survivor would be perfect. I don’t think she needs a buff but switching protector killer for a 130TU survivor would be my choice of buff if she needed one.

  1. Totally agree that protect focus hasn’t been experimented with enough. Protector legendaries are few and far between. I’ve always liked the idea of a legendary with a passive that heals it over time. It would be something like this…
    Actives:
  2. Purifying mist (130TU)
  3. Protect focus (160TU)
  4. Healing light (130TU, 100s restriction)
  5. Confident inversion strike (100TU)
    SS) Link double saving spell (50TU)
    Passives:
  6. Stun immunity
  7. Natural healing

Natural healing is the HoT, based off the monster’s defence stat. Confident inversion strike is like confident strike but takes your attack stat to be 6000-attack. I.e. After you use protect focus it deals nice (but not insane) damage as long as the monster is over 70% health.

  1. Shiny monsters are a cool idea. I think they work fine as they are but maybe they could add achievements for collecting a certain number of shiny monsters. These achievements could mainly give gems but maybe for every 5 or 10 shiny monsters you could get a special limited monster in shiny (a legendary already in the game, but the only way you can get it shiny is through this).

I hope you like my thoughts on the points. The potato inspired my creativity :wink:

8

Hey vkc or brd, I think we’d love to hear any opinions you might have on this stuff, because honestly guwop did an amazing job of summing up pretty much all of the biggest problems that can be dealt with.

9

Duplicates or revived monsters should inherit the bonus from their origin.

10

The thing is, nerfing deo’s quick charge will ruin him. 

While also some noobs absolutely get wrecked via deo tk tk tt, but now with regalion and more monsters that counter tt coming and existing already its not nearly as good as it used to be. 

11

regalion doesn’t survives deo tk fl. 

12

I heard mention of a delicious potato where may i obtain this 

13

You can’t as the Devs use it as their server

14

Snap

15

  1. Deo would be completely useless without it (was never used until the SS came along). running chrome in 5-8, or raizen/angel FL stalls this plus leaves the user open to a huge counter.  If you were to nerf, I would balance by replacing stealth with piercing blast (100 or 130 TU), hitting a single user but going through HG.

  2. Agree - Either make sudden death enemy only, or stun pulse, or add HG

  3. Agree damage should be reduced

  4. Could instead nerf geo by giving him a weakness - I like backstab as it adds strategy to the game.  Maybe replace element retribution with a sleep / protect / chrono move?

  5. I like the concept of VP and rewarding people that play more, but still think ranking should be similar to how it was before (based on how good players you beat rather than how much you play)

  6. No issues with ingredients - helps make monsters not immediately evolvable on receipt

  7. Agree

  8. Agree - maybe secret skill could be changed to swift assisted AOE?  Would make them very viable

  9. I like this event - good variety by having elemental usage

  10. Not sure this adds much but fine

  11. Agree

  12. Agree

  13. Agree

  14. Toxic give turn pairs incredibly well with one on one and detox moves, as well as being a give turn move, so think it’s fine as is. (Crims is so much better than Midas atm)

  15. Wolf needs a major buff, think vid is fine.  Could make Wolf into mortar support

  16. Baha is fine - v bulky with shield entrance.  Very unlikely he gets past 6 rockoids too!  Dolph agree

  17. Massively agree.  Protect focus is so poor vs normal protectors.  I like the idea of it absorbing all damage (incl AOEs), or an even higher defence.

  18. Agree

16

Since we don’t all have the same experience against deo, it’s normal to have such different opinion on him. First regalion doesn’t stall deo fl, not everyone have chromera to kill tt, sear need two hits to kill tt. Raizen is a good check but the amount of bb fl makes it really risky. So I propose we rework him more than just the ss. 

Stats stay the same, passive too.

Active skill : charge ( tu 80), energy blast stay. So I have a bunch of ideas for the two remaining skills, stealth being useless it could replace with a one time use shield with 50 or 40 tu. Aoe could be replaced with stun strike ( remember it ? of course it would be improve) stun 2 enemy for 200 sec with 200 TU and need a charge with it. 

SS: We could keep the current ss but with a tu restriction of like 50 sec after first turn.

summary,

deodragon: 

Active skill : - Energy charge ( 80 TU )

                    - Energy blast ( 250 TU)

                    - Stun strike ( 200 TU )

                    - Fast protect self ( 50/40/30 TU ) 

passive skill: - stun immunity 

secret skill : - Insta energy charge ( 50 TU restriction after first turn )

17

Deo is basically the first mortar monster. The Dr Dre of mortar monsters if you will.

Z19 GaryOak

18

So Dr Deo?

19

Dr dreo

20

Since Deo’s FL got stuck In My Head, I would call it Jason Deorulo