Yeahā¦ For a while my FL was Soulstealer + tardigrenade + stratustrike + either scolopendragon or XYZ (2nd form)
When it worked, it was almost a guaranteed win. BUTā¦ any opposing FL mons with poison, sleep immunity, stealth, or camo and everything falls flat. It either worked perfectly or not at all.
And, if the OoO doesnāt work, then SS is dead weight because you canāt just sit there and stall for 300s to let death sentence work for you, but if you kill any of the marked monsters then he doesnāt get enough kills to be lethal either.
Personally I donāt think he belongs in S+ for PVE, he is very good but he needs building around to work properly (and thatās the opposite of your own definition of an s+).
I feel the same way about mantiferno, he is good but his lifespan on the field is always so short. He needs a protector but canāt due to RAW bloodthirst. I would have agreed with you before they changed how Taunt works, but now I dunno.
Arenāt you happy you finally made an update just to get complaints and no thanks??!!?
i agree tbh. he is bad, however he is definitely better than he was.
also my limited PvP is exactly why he should listen. if a PvP nub like me can get success with him then someone with more skillz can probably do better.
Iām sorry guys, I knew when doing that I would be creating some tears but I hope to save you the tears from your future losses.
As time has gone on, the average power level of the mythics has risen a lot. C tier mythics are surprisingly strong now. When you compare them to each other, some are simply outclassed or they donāt have some big selling point.
On this topicā¦ itās true that generically powerful monsters get rated higher than build-around or niche monsters.
For example, one of the reasons Suikenshi was knocked down so hard in this update is he relies on solo bloodfury even more now and thereās a huge selection of powerful water mythics now that it makes him somewhat niche.
However, win conditions get a bit of a boost. That is, monsters which either are a win condition by themselves with minimal effort or become one with a very reasonable building requirement. Thatās why you see low TU sweepers tend to rate highly. Itās only ones like Kirina which suffer from being harder to play.
So for Soulstealer in PvE it requires OoO to be strong but in that setup it is extremely powerful and itās a strategy that already plays very well in PvE. A Soulstealer team is useful for a lot of events, not to mention it helps enable a link shadow OoO team which seems to be very accessible now for PvE.
Thanks a lot for all the detail, followed up by Lebowquade also sharing his PvP experience. What Lebowquade says lines up exactly with what Iāve found with some OoO builds. Itās very easy to build them where youāll thrash 70%+ of your opponents but then have a very hard time against the rest where it didnāt work properly. Itās usually the weaker people you thrash too, which isnāt really what you should aim for when you build a team (you want to stand a good chance against the strongest teams to get a super high win rate).
The quoted bit above is the kind of line which makes me pretty skeptical. I mean, if Soulstealer isnāt doing anything proactive and Onyxia is healing then basically what youāre doing is Oniblade aggro. For that itās way better to use the likes of Don Rilla, Cynthia, Luna or some of the other sleep immune options alongside Oniblade. Onyxia in that strategy mainly brings fatal sting as the way to deal with shields/HG. Stormloch(s) is a great option for Oniblade aggro and from the way you describe it that sounds like what youāre doing but with this extra angle of Soulstealer doing some control.
My question isā¦ how useful actually is that control from Soulstealer in your strategy?? Does Onibladeās 2x OoO not bring enough itself? Also, how do you handle Ogremaster in 5th, which is now one of the most popular monsters in PvP?
Ultimately, my reasoning for not moving Soulstealer in PvP is that even though itās clearly stronger, it simply doesnāt fit PvP with OoO in my opinion. I think a OoO team becomes weaker when including multiple monsters that rely on not meeting any sleep counter. I think it can only be used to farm weaker players, similar to how Soulstealer was at one time the most dominant FL setup in PvPā¦ back in the days when monsters and teams were way way weaker.
its the fact that soulstealer can wake up the second wave of OoO that makes him particularly useful. otherwise the choices are limited to the likes of bundleblazer. lol.
So you mean it allows you to use the second OoO even if it sleeps your own team, because you can wake them up? I donāt quite follow how thatās useful. It sounds situational and risky. I guess youāre doing that OoO to get just one more dreamhunt kill with Oniblade rather than any control? What about needing time for soulstealerā¦ doesnāt waking up the enemies after the second OoO leave Soulstealer as dead weight because you donāt have any more guaranteed sleep?
Thanks for replying btw, Iām trying to gain insight here into how you find your team plays. None of my critical thinking is intended as harsh critique of your teambuilding or anything
im really helped by the fact shiny stormloch is 9+. it means that i can help take out the sleep protection very quickly so when the second OoO hits its usually against monsters which cant defend against it.
this means that when Soulstealer wakes my team i have a much higher chance of ending up in a 4 vs 1 situation.
this is the point where i use death sentence. not a the start of battle.
depending upon the monsters present it also can allow wraithhost to charge.
sleep all is still very situational due to high tu.
ive only just began to experiment with him in truth and i feel like i could find a better situation to use him in.
like you say. when OoO works it wins about 70% of the time however i feel like what soulstealer does is offer the opportunity to use it with other monsters who otherwise would not be found in a OoO setup.
this is before you start considering the possibilities of OoO leira entrances with Death Sentence. eg OoO > Instant purify > Death Sentence > Backbite > enter leira.
Iām a bit confused by your use of Soulstealerās purifyā¦ itās instant purify all so it wakes up the enemies too. That doesnāt seem to line up with what youāre saying unless Iām missing something??
Marginally off topic ā¦ Has anyone ever tried a team of just the G.F. monsters? Does it likeā¦ Actually work? Or all the banamids, or all the A.S.'s, et cetera?
was tired when i wrote the last bit about leira. but the other stuff still stands.
basically what it allows you to do is have the second OoO of oniblade with a bit better control.
i have been able to line it up pretty well to wake up my team once charging bloodthirst. giving me a couple of turns of advantage.
there are definitely stronger monsters i can have in my team (maybe not as fun) however Iām not saying that it should move drastically.
i feel like it should go up one tier. no more.
i would point out that while i have had some success using it there is some truth in what tan says in that i have only played about 20 matches using it and won 14 of those. So i may have just been lucky and got a good run of games.
with the link storm i won 5 out of 9 but used him mainly for death sentence.
ngl, i faced a couple of awakened ones in pvp and they all seemed to be deadweight when they didnt have targets. (can just be me) so i am really unsure about this tbh
