Let's talk about RNG

Neo Monsters
1

RNG is implemented in certain games basically to make them more diverse, different, to make events vary constantly and along with this, to make them more entertaining. The game would be boring if every time we enter, let’s say for instance, to Dungeon Challenge, and every time we go through a floor we meet the same monsters over and over again, and they attack the same way over and over again…That among other applications of RNG in games. But, is it really necessary to implement it in PvP?
I’d like to see some of your thoughts about this matter. I consider that in a strategy game, when you face another player, the “luck factor” should be minimized. You should win by strategy and skills when playing, not by luck. In did, you could get lucky once or twice,but not as much as players get in this game. How many times have your adversary bypassed one, two, three APs? And how many times have he done it two or three times in a row? (Which I know many of you have been in this situation many many times in the actual rule :slight_smile: ). And that was the AP case, let’s not talk about the famous malwing, the attacks that sometimes kills a monster and sometimes not, the monsters who sometimes go in front of your rival’s and sometimes go after; we can even talk about the random bronceshells/boxjaws in your team, OoO, Duel, and skills that have the word “random” on its name. Too much “random” anything imo, and I know I’m missing lot of more cases.
I think the game, in PvP, should be more strategy/skill based and less random. What do you guys think?

(Btw, I’m not posting this cause I lost against someone due to bad luck, that has happened to me too many times now, but everything has a limit and I wanna know how many of you think the same way I do)

5 Likes
2

I suppose the devs could release monsters that are less rng dependent, but besides that I don’t see any ways to change this. While games often seem to come down to luck, there’s a good chance there were different choices that could’ve been made earlier in the game that would have avoided it coming down to that situation in the first place.

Rn the main factors in how well someone does in pvp are decision making, teambuilding, collection, and time to play the game. Luck doesn’t come close to being as important of a factor since bad luck and good luck mostly balance out even if it can be hard to notice.

1 Like
3

The vast majority of things are not based on RNG. The things which are, still have hugely strategic decisions revolving around them. Both players have to factor in the risk of what a dreamy entrance might hit or whether someone can hit around a protector. Even without RNG we have to make risky decisions based on whether we should kill 2+ monsters and bring enemies into the battle that we don’t know what they could be. There’s also the bonus on an opponent’s monsters which we can’t see (unless they’re +9 and on the battlefield) so we have to anticipate what TU their skills will be and how fast they get a turn.

RNG makes PvP way more replayable. If a battle was determined between any two players then after the first time they meet it’s very boring. Having a decent amount of RNG gives people a chance to win even when the odds are stacked against them.

If a player doesn’t like RNG much they can build their team with less of it. They’ll still need to face RNG from the opponents but it will be less of a factor in their battles.

I think Neo does RNG very well. Personally, I only find auto-protect and sleep all to be very frustrating. Sleep all because it has a small chance to completely warp the game around it. Auto-protect because there are many times where hitting around it is crucial for who wins the battle and it doesn’t feel good when you lost because you couldn’t get lucky when you needed to. Some skills bypassing protectors has massively helped with this annoyance.

3 Likes
4

I think that there are 4 distinct categories of rng that are acceptable in different amounts

Encounter rng: Pretty simple, and probably the least controversial. It would be boring to fight the same battles in the same places on the world map or, as you said, if every time we enter the Dungeon Challenge, every time we go through a floor we meet the same monsters over and over again, and they attack the same way over and over again. This is pretty much always a good thing so long as certain encounters are unavoidable. This also includes egg rng.

Tying rng: This is the rng that determines what happens if numbers, usually speed or TU counts, are the same. This is literally unavoidable, since multiple monsters will have the same speed or TU count or whatever else. This means that this is a necessary evil, because I really can’t think of a way around it without changing the fundamental mechanics of the game.

Not really rng: When something is unpredictable, but not random. This is yet another type of rng that cannot be removed by definition. This is what pvp is based on, the knowledge that the opponent might have a hidden Trump Card next in their lineup, or that their monster may or may not be potted to +9. No one wants to remove this, much as they grumble about it.

Function rng: When a skill does something random. This can be OoO targeting a random enemy or simply an attack dealing semi-random damage. This is generally the type of rng people complain about, and comes in a few categories. Rng so minor it doesn’t really matter, such as the damage dealt by attacks. This is pretty minor and very rarely matters. Then, there is rng that represents a nerf to a skill. OoO would be pretty broken if you could choose the target, same with natural selection or Tranquilizing Entrance. This rng forces you to cover all of your bases since you don’t know exactly what will happen. And, finally, rng that actually buffs the move. This mostly has to do with disruption moves that would be way too easy to counter if they were predicable. Imagine if you knew exactly where the Boxjaws would spawn from Explosive Quartet, for instance. This rng is easy to hate because it messes with strategies, but I think that, like KD said, strategies being unreliable is the only way that the game can be balanced.

Let me know if I missed any. Overall, when you break it down like this, it becomes a lot more clear that talking about rng in terms of good or bad is pointless. It is a broad term that isn’t always what you think it is, and I think that it needs to be judged on a much more case-by-case basis, since every category has asterisks and subcategories that go on forever.

2 Likes
5

I’ll just say one thing luck is a skill

2 Likes
6

I’m not saying “to eliminate” RNG, I just think pvp battles would be better if “luck” factor is minimized. It should still exists, but less than now.

Although, so far those who have talked seem to like it the way it is, so maybe it’s just me then.

Curious thing: I most say that I don’t like RNG that much, that every time I face an AP I don’t try to bypass it, y always treat it as a normal protector, just because I don’t wanna win a match due to luck

7

I wouldn’t like it if they added too much RNG into the game. Death revenge is not fun for most people when there’s too much of it. I want wins to feel like they were skilful and won through clever decision making.

However, I still have many battles that are pre-determined who wins right from the very start of the battle. An amount of frustrating RNG is a small price to pay for reducing the number of battles like this. When I rematch someone I want it to be another interesting battle and not one of us wondering whether they should retreat to save us both the time.

1 Like
8

The less RNG the better.

2 Likes
9

right

1 Like
10

I think the high-speed drug team should be weakened. This team will destroy the game experience of most middle and low-level players. My suggestion is to increase the six-star and five-star monsters that control poison, weaken the speed of the frozen snake king, and change the poison attack of the bear boss into purification

3 Likes
11

Drugs bad

also u have an amazing pfp

12

If you win against someone, there are three possible cases:

  • tough battle: if this is the case, you can’t be sure you’ll win the next one because your adversary will probably take different decisions now that he knows your team, not because RNG.
  • easy win: unless he changes his team, you’ll keep getting easy wins against him, again,not because RGN, there is just a huge difference of power that “luck” can’t change.
  • the luckiest man ever: you know your strategy is wayyy better than your adversary’s, that he could never defeat you in normal terms…but then he goes and bypasses 3 AP three times in a raw, his malwing puts to sleep your key monster, among others exess of luck RNG provides in PvP. You lose after a shitty game. You saying you have fun like this? Because when people get this lucky in the middle of ranked PVP makes me wanna uninstall the game :no_mouth:
1 Like
13

That is the entire point of raw moves. You do understand that, right?

14

*row

1 Like
15

He was talking about non raw moves.

16

Mmmm.
For instance, you have 3 AP, your opponent is gonna attack with valzareing (not a raw monster), and bypasses the 3 AP. You think “hey, he got lucky”; then he does it three more times in a raw and you think “wtf”…

17

What’s your solution to bad luck?

18

Oh. I misunderstood you saying raw as them using a RAW attack.

19

To minimize the amount of monsters/skills that completely depend of RNG

20

No. No raw skills