Current PVP rebalance suggestions.

Neo Monsters Neo Monsters General Discussions
1

There have been several topics recently concerning mons that people believe to be a bit over powered in pvp.

I think that if you rebalance one mon you run the risk of another strategy becoming the new tier 0. For that reason, I think that in order to make the current top end of pvp a bit more diverse, and with more interaction possible between each side, a few mons need to be addressed.

This would be my recommendation

Zibel - remove the ability for throw to activate double retribution.

Soul stealer - For the most part this mon is ok. I do think however that he should be reduced to 55 speed. This would bring him inline with the assisted teams and give them a fighting chance. Right now they will get sleep all spammed before they can deal with SS. It also moves SS behind the games fasted knockbackers
Which will allow a correctly built team to counter.

Legendary TT - remove give turn, replace with assisted all. Reduce speed to 27 to match the super epic TT .This will do two things. It will cut the nonsense these things enable in half. Not having the give turn cuts the number of attacks they allow you to make without an opponent to get a turn in half. Also giving them assisted all will boost assisted water and make assisted fire an actual viable strategy.

Gold tail - change potent sleep to 70 seconds. This will give purifiers a fighting chance to break a sleep lock.

These are things that I think would help balance out the current meta without completely gutting other strategies.

There are a few buffs I would like to see as well but they are less important.

-400 second novablast to 350 second nova blast.

-Increase deo Dragons charge time to 160 seconds. Increase both health gain and damage per charge by 60% to account for the extra charge time.

  • give Canyswyrm HG and increase speed to 85. A knockback next monster that can survive to actually use it and outspeed a zibel canabalizing into a bane would be very healthy for the game IMO.

-Remove auro Dragons HG. Add twin summon entrance.

Side note. I have not fully tested emeral yet, but I think he is going to be a contender in pvp. However, I think he is already balanced enough to fit into the metagame that these changes would create.

feel free to share your thoughts and opinions but please, let’s keep it civil. Also please let’s skip the comments that nothing needs to change. Your opinions have been heard several times in the other threads. If you disagree with any changes, have some to add, or think some are unnecessary, please add to the discussion!

Edit- adjusted deo and zib suggestions

2

I still can manage wins even my frontline get deadlock by SS frontline sleep sentence and losing 4-7 mons.

I want see new legendary with “NO GUARD” skill like moguro

3

Don’t see the need for any changes…u win some u lose some…can’t expect to win all the battles…If u have deep enough pocket to roll every single monster…don’t see why you cannot form the dream team…

4

Deodragon is fine as is, most people do not even use him in pvp. One energy charge does very little damage and increasing his charge time to 200 seconds would make him vulnerable to timestrike, which he already is after using energy blast so it would effectively make him useless.

I think Zibel Death roulette is fine as well, back stab could create a problem as he would be able to activate a DR whenever. Imagine him at the end of a team with a give turn and some rockoids. Could be interesting but may cause him to become op in the back line.

5

Legendary TT - remove give turn, replace with assisted all. Reduce speed to 27 to match the super epic TT .This will do two things. It will cut the nonsense these things enable in half. Not having the give turn cuts the number of attacks they allow you to make without an opponent to get a turn in half. Also giving them assisted all will boost assisted water and make assisted fire an actual viable strategy.

All that does is replace a GT’d 5.6k atk assisted all with a tankier 4.1k atk assisted all? It fixes the problem of Lavaronix in water teams, but for those that have mechaviathan, it won’t really change anything at all, as any full lineup assisted all can kill or HG, or guaranteed 2 shot KO/HG regardless of atk in the 4k-5.7k range. I’ve yet to see velocirex fail to kill something in one shot that Godfeather could, or fail to two shot something that takes 2 to KO/HG from Godfeather. I do agree with the speed reduction, but would a normal AoE in place of GT be better, as it already functions as a stun immune TT like the superepics, and can also bomb provided you keep them alive (already very tanky in the first place). They are meant to be more support than sweepers, with the bomb being the answer for being ignored too long. 

Tl;dr: Replacing that makes them just a super tanky assisted sweeper with the attack of a Super Epic while still being stun immune. Not exactly a nerf in my eyes and doesn’t fix the problem. I agree with the speed reduction, and would advise a regular AoE instead of GT.

6

Goldtail is just fine the way he is!!

7

If the devs wanted this to be a p2w game they would probably allow players to simply buy legends outright. The fact is skills and moves are constantly being rebalanced to avoid a being able to create a single team that can beat any other team.

8

This is not a discussion about what can be beaten. It’s about balance. The goal is to create a Rock Paper Scissors situation with front lines still allowing for any of the others to recover without having to start a match 6 mons behind.

A quick disclaimer, I am not complaining as someone who fought one of these and lost. I have all of the mons for these strategies except gold tail.

There is a power creep in this game and I think these changes would help keep them in check.

9

I would say that the Legendary Team turners do need to be addressed however. I run my own frontline that I’ve yet to see from anyone else yet, but it isn’t foolproof.

But against most lineups, if I go first, and I can get my seahowl to move before your GT, I’m pretty much guaranteed to sweep your first 6-10 mons. Most people I’ve played against instantly surrender when that happens, it just isn’t fun. And I would not have been able to do it without the Lavaronix, where all I do on it is use TT, then spam GT and finally let the bomb go off because most people want to remove my two main sweepers before Lava.

10

I run 2 purifier vento + glyther and yeah its need luck to survive and didnt hit both of them.
This is quite harsh but this game is all about spending.
More you spend=more monster pool = more counters.
Seriously look at me even i luck have good monster w/o spend any, i cant beat someone that have aegis dracolord omegas flarevern leg TT and other good monster in one team.

Especially the “+” bonus on them lul😂

11

Let’s put it this way. The fights where I used that team thill posted about I was killing the opponent so fast that I would kill all 16 mons with mecha still on the field with bomb still not ready to activate. 16 kills in less than 400 seconds of battle time is crazy.

12

I concur, but the difference there for me is if I had mechaviathan instead of lavaronix for the extra damage, I could probably nearly pull the same feat if my seahowl can move before their GT. I lack the insane speed advantage that the lineup thill posted has, but the fact that a team with only “good” speed can still nearly wipe the enemy team purely because of the legend TT should indicate a major problem.

Abyss, Cryo, Seahowl, Lavaronix. Atlanteon in 5th. Raijin in last slot for switch place if frost rider hits lucky on one-on-one.

  1. It’s typically Abyss poison gas

  2. Cryo Assisted all

  3. If Lava moves before their GT/TT, then Seahowl GT to Cryo Assisted all, stun doesn’t matter here if I got kills on move 2,

  4. Else Seahowl GT to Lava, who always TT on his turn

4.5 If they don’t have a TT to guarantee kill on my Abyss, I will stall and use my first Detox blast here and instead Poison gas after the TT

  1. Abyss is always first after TT -> Detox blast, which from experience hits about 1.6x as hard as Cryo Assisted all w/ 3 same element

  2. Cryo always ends up next, for Assisted all

  3. If I get poison revenge anywhere from those 2 attacks, GT to Abyss again, Detox Blast.

  4. GT to Cryokaizer for Assisted All otherwise

  5. GT again to Cryokaizer for Assisted All.

Now it’s their turn. They couldn’t move since move 3.

That’s a total of:

3-5 Assisted All

1-2 Detox Blasts

Even on the best teams full of tank and HG, that’s still nearly half their team gone, and on most teams it’s easily over half to 3/4 of their team gone. Take away the GT on Lava and while it only prevents one Assisted All in my setup, it prevents any other shenanigans I try once my initial sweepers fall (if they ever do). If my frontline isn’t completely dead after that first setup, it’s typically GG due to the double assisted or an extra detox blast that gets thrown in there the next time my seahowl and ronix can give turn, both being +9.

The only time I’ve significantly lost a fight with that starting line is when SS chooses to use Sleep All instead and hits lucky, when poison gas completely fails and doesn’t poison the enemy OR me, or when my opponent starts the fight knockback happy, or when the opponent is running a fullout assisted frontline and just outspeeds me with each mon at the start. It pretty much turns into does my seahowl and legend TT outspeed yours. If bane drops in 5th, that’s a godsend for me in this setup, and the setup is near immune to SSJ bunny as well.

13

I knew that team would be Nasty Alucard. Especially when that speed goes up. Balance is essential in this game. Those ideas sound good to me Alucard. Except for the bomb. I think 400 TU is fare. I also like giving the TT 50 TU to use TT. The TT do need some Change though. Zib is still a beast even if throw don’t activate DR. I don’t know about giving him new moves. I’m fine with his death roulette. It’s a 50/50 so whatever happens is fare. ( I do hate that move so much though) After he does death roulette the other team can at least have a turn before death Retribution.

14

Enemy would still get a turn with backstab too but I’m fine with leaving death roulette. It serves a similar purpose, but can result in some extreme luck going I either side.

I suggested a lowering of the novablast time not because of warca, because of the new mon. Assisted earth does not have many resources and IMO that would make him more useful to that team.

The deo buff was for a similar reason. Giving lava assisted all would make him the only good aoe fire mon. Changing deo so that one TT lets him blast for decent damage would let that team compete. Scotty’s point about TS is good though. A compromise would be a 160 TU and as well as a increase for the life gain proportional the the extra charge time.

15

Novablast should be reduced. As a defining feature of 2 legendaries it feels too weak. Soulstealer can wipe out 4 mons at once ignoring hold ground. Novablast does the same thing but hold ground restricts it. Plus death sentence takes only 320 secs to go off while novablast takes 400. And it has to be the novablasters turn for it too. While soulstealer just has to wait for it to go off.

16

Difference is Zard that is his only major attack. If he doesn’t get death sentence off he is useless besides a lucky sleep all. If you don’t get death sentence you most likely will not get bloodthirst. Where as Warca has the bomb along with assisted water and Bloodthirst. A lot Bigger chance to get bloodthirst off with assisted water.

17

You also have to sacrifice a mon to activate nova and they lack HG to keep them alive for it. Its pretty clear why SS sees so much use and warca hasn’t. Decreasing the TU won’t make a dramatic difference, but it puts it much closer to being useful. Another thing to note is that SS has an inherent ability to stall for its timer where as warca has to rely on other mons to do so.

18

That is true, but you also have to take into account that soulstealer death sentence doesn’t care about stun. It can still go off even if soulstealer is at 400+ seconds. While if warca gets stunned at all then you won’t get novablast off. Soulstealer can still set up dreamhunt or other effects using sleep all even if death sentence doesn’t go off. While with warca if you don’t get novablast he sits there and does nothing because he is stunned/got knocked back/no water mons to fuel assisted water. Soulstealer is outright more useful then warca/ bazilogon.

19

While I do agree with all your points, I just want to make sure it’s clear that I’m not trying to support a nova buff so that warca is as good as SS. I’m perfectly fine with SS being better than warca. I am just using SS as a reference due to his simular timed attack to make a case that a 350 timed nova would not be overpowered.

I don’t think all legends need to be equal, but I do think assisted earth and water need the boost that this buff provides to have a chance to compete as tier 1 strategies.

20

Instead of the summon entrance on auro just buff reincarnation to something like 60%. Sounds like a lot but as it stands it’s so unreliable that you can’t build around it.
Aside from that I agree with all of this.