Balance changes sorely needed

It seems like every exhibition there’s always a host of monsters that are just too powerful for their own good, and are seriously toxic to the meta. Deathgazer, chronozeros, give turners, etc. This time around, five monsters have single handedly taken over the entire meta. I have run into maybe 5 teams this entire event that did not have at least one of them. I’m talking about Rexkong, Ziberius, Leogeist, Lavaronix, and Mechaviathan.

I can sort of understand Rexkong’s sudden popularity, since the reduced cost means people can simply put tons of fodder in the back for him. But honestly, I’m not really sure why he wasn’t addressed sooner, namely back when Chronozeros was living large. Rexkong is seriously just as bad as chrono used to be. The only difference is that he is absurdly fast and almost nothing can out pace him. Literally the only thing stopping him is either gearcroc or aegisdragon, otherwise one of the enemy monsters is guaranteed dead. When two monsters in a roster of hundreds are the only thing standing in the way of an otherwise inescapable combo, you know you’ve done something wrong.

And don’t even get me started on Ziberius. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again- The cannibalize combo is far too powerful. Once again he is far too fast, and the only sufficiently powerful mons that can actually intercept him, i.e. Robinator and Rex, have the misfortune of being fire types. So, you all know the story, he cannibalizes a DR, one enemy is instantly dead sans a revenge, and an enterance guy gets to immediately enter and shut down any hope the opponent may have.

And then we have Leogeist. This thing just pisses me off to no end. It’s like someone said, there is no disadvantage whatsoever to putting him in your frontline. Stun absorbers render themselves powerless in order to avert stun effects, and in doing so make them selves die a lot quicker as well as open their team up to ts all. But leogeist’s ability has a huge advantage in place of a drawback, not weakening himself or even risking assassinate. The stun absorbers look downright obsolete compared to him, and they’re supposed to be a pivotal part of every lineup.

Finally, the TTs. Just… why. These things are just everywhere, and having them on the normal wheel doesn’t help. Their stun immunity and their ludicrous defense makes them near impossible to eradicate on such short notice. Pretty much all they have to do is get their turn, and it’s pretty much curtains. Obviously searguard isn’t good enough, all he can do is wound it, then the onslaught simply continues like nothing even happened.

Devs, I beseech you, do something about these monsters. I really love this game, and I do care about the direction it’s heading in. People will lose interest very quickly if they can’t go 50 yards without getting trashed by the exact same monsters over and over again. If these guys can just lose the aspect that makes them unreasonably capable, they can just become good options. They don’t need to turn into benchwarmers- they can remain perfectly viable, albeit fair. Please, just do it. The game needs this.

I agree to pretty much everything you said, as a matter of fact I was the one who mentioned about Leogeist and some other monsters having absolute no downside whatsoever in using them.
I think that is exactly what is messing up the meta right now.

I divide PVP into three categories (I’m in the 800-900 points region): up to 500 where you can find anything in terms of monsters, then you have 500-800 where the Midas/TT combo dominates (me included), usually followed by Bane in 5th. The other two are usually Kong, Galvbane and Robinator. You have a few guys running sleep teams but they are too luck dependant for my taste so it usually is a total hit or miss. And lastly you have the 800+ region, where the combo Zib, Aegis and Leogeist dominates.

When you have 900+ monsters but the ones on top are all basically using the same ones, there is something wrong.

Without Kong, nightrider and nighthunter will be in everyone’s frontline. Nerf Kong is one of the worst ideas.

I’ve seen Ageis so much… Not saying he needs a nerf. Because he’s good the way he is. I just don’t have him…  :lol: Zib/Ageis is a pain to get past.

Right, because rexkong is the only guy in the entire meta capable of shutting nightrider down.

I kinda agree with you, but Kong only became necessary because you have to try and desperately take out the opponent’s TT first (or mess up Nightrider for that matter) otherwise you will most likely lose the match.

If it wasn’t for TT and GT, the game could be a lot more interesting. The way it is right now, whoever gets the TT first will kill 5-8 monsters before the opponent can move.

Aegis is a pain in the ■■■, but you can take him out fairly easy if not paired with leo and zib, plus he is susceptible to stun.

Nerfing will not solve the problem…getting those monsters you lack will solve it…time to buy more gems…xD

So some of this I agree with, not all of it but some. As a reference I’ve been using midas/TT/aegis up at 1000 points with relative success (less now that soul shield is bugged, but anyway)

I think this current meta has pretty much arisen because of Rexkong. He’s basically the start of a chain of consequences that lead to one conclusion: running a sweeper in 5th slot is far better than running one in the front line. With that being said I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. He can be oppressive when used in certain combinations but he’s a double edged sword once he’s thrown. The point I’m making is that he’s the catalyst, notthe ultimate single cause. Besides, he’s a great midgame breaker as well

I think that Ziberius shouldn’t trigger death revenges with cannibalise, but honestly that’s as far as I would go. I think what makes zib powerful is versatility combined with speed. You have so many options with a small core of monsters, and so it’s a team that can adapt very well. Being able to threaten 2 kills with a stun dissuading death is very annoying but not game changing if you build your team well.

Leogeist is a pain to deal with but he’s nowhere near broken. In this pvp specifically stun is a lot more powerful so naturally leo is much better, but in normal cost he can often do nothing for a long time or get instantly poison eaten. My only qualm is that there aren’t any non-protector absorbers so right now he fills a very exclusive and sought after slot of safe stun protection. Add more variety and you solve the problem.

The problem with the tt comes down to elements tbh. If searguard was electric there would be much less of a problem. In regards to balancing them theye just need a counter, and while searguard is a start in the front line he makes little impact on the outcome.

Also as a final note, you say you get sick of the same monsters over and over again. That’s not something that will ever change I’m afraid, there will always be a best team that everyone slowly gravitates to. The trick to balancing a game like this is having enough checks to make countering strategies viable.
Aka ifor you want to nerf zib then the versatility is the problem not the speed.

I think night/night is pretty easy to deal with tbh. Just use an AoE so life flip is useless (i.e. shadowyrm, kami, death chicken) and then Nightrider can’t do squat, and my shadowyrm has never had any trouble with night/night (in fact, just bloodthirsting is enough). I understand that Kong counters, but if your sole reason for keeping Kong is that Kong is the only one who can deal with this, then, I really don’t see this as a valid argument. 

I think I’m leaning towards agreeing about “Kong needs a nerf”, I’m tired of seeing Kong first up using a throw to kill anything but Leo, Aegis, and the leg TT. 

Yeah, I wasn’t proposing that zib’s speed be dropped. The combo removal thing actually seems like a fantastic idea to me. Don’t get me wrong, zib is a really cool concept, my only real problem is the cannibalize combo. Just remove the combo, and then people can finally use him the way he was intended to be for once. And sure, rexkong doesn’t destroy whole teams on his own, but he’s still a very cheap way to score kills. I don’t think we need such a potent catalyst- pretty sure that’s gallio’s job :wink: I’ll admit the mecha problem would be better if searguard were electric, but that still leaves lavaronix. And they have stun immunity, extreme defense, and give turn, a ridiculous arsenal of advantages. I think just take one of those away, I don’t really care which, and they’ll still be good, just not OP good. And believe me, not for one moment do I claim to expect the OU monster effect to go away completely, I only ask that it remain reasonably in check. I can tolerate a 30% rate, but NOT an 80% rate.

I wish you stop crying you noob

I don’t think Leo is broken, but he should be susceptible to Turn Killer, just so there is a reason to think twice before putting him up.

Now, I’m having a huge problem with two things. One is what Buck mentioned about Zib and Cannibalize. I think most people would agree it should not activate passive revenge or retribution. The skill should only activate if the killing blow comes from the opponent.

The second thing is that in my opinion Searguard should have an assassin type of movement that hits two monsters (a protector if that’s the case and the Turn Giver). It has to be done to really limit the use of TT. It became too easy to charge a sweeper and wipe half of the opponent’s team before they can move again.

Zib: as mentioned before cannibalize shouldnt trigger revenges, that would be good

Leo:stun counter shouldt give him turn, just deny stun, also chrono trigger will affect him, its bugged right now

Legend TT: lava is fine right now, the problem is mecha, maybe release a ground chrono killer or something

Here my 2 cents. Kong should be nerfed. One problem with nerfing kong though is you can’t get rid of Leo with one shot no more. If Leo was weak to chrono killer he would be ok. You would have to run a earth four star blood craver. Might not be a bad idea. Anyway you need to be able to kill Leo in the front lines so robin and kong are necessary evils. There would be repercussions even bigger than just Leo if kong does get nerfed.
The legend TT suck. Mecha especially. In the front line you have to run a sleep fl with frost or SS or an epic one on one. If they run poisen 5 then you need Abyss and terror or some other poisen in the fl. It kind of a guessing game a little bit. All that said it would be awesome if you weaken Mecha like you can lava. You can’t oneshot lava but you can really hurt him. Mecha on the other hand isn’t fazed to much because all the fast strong attackers are fire. Just balancing that out would be awesome.
Taking away Zib ability to trigger passives on cannabolize would be fine with me. Sounds fare.

I wonder how many of those problems would go away if we didn’t have TT to begin with and GT limited to a single use (can I go as far as none at all?).
I think that would open up a lot of new possibilities.

The whole issue with Kong is indeed the fact that you use him more to try and stop an avalanche coming your way. It is pretty much one of the few defenses if you don’t have a Legendary TT yourself.

He’s just suggesting ways to balance overpowered monsters. No need to be so passive aggressive.

With enough money and luck.

We just had a round of nerfs that adressed everything. Actually there is no monster really overpowered.

That cannibalize triggers DR is fine. That is his whole concept. Removing it would render him too weak/there would be better replacements. I agree with hidan here.

The most impact this PVP had Rexkong and he killed my poor Leo very often, but I don’t think that he needs a nerf either.

Also, it’s starting to look kind of [put in proper word] that people that don’t have some special mons are requesting nerfs for them again and again and again… it won’t happen

motor leo both TT zib and kong all deserve a nerf 

Throw in front line pay the cost of last monster without summon.
And everyone have it including you. If you think it’s a scam, you also do it. It’s very fair.
On the other hand canibalize, Life flip friend(as Nighthunter) have serious problem.