Zibarius is a broken monster in pvp

Pretty self explanatory with the topic. If you disagree I’m going to explain why you are wrong.
This is going to be kind of long so you are fore warned.
If you run a team of Zib Kong aegis and mechaviathan and bane Fifth your going to win 95 % of the time. The reason for this team being broken is Zib and him being to fast to counter.
Let’s go play by play. If you run Zib team you have to choices of either throwing with Kong or cannibalize him with Zib for his stun revenge. Either way retrib is charged. If the team has no protectors up front they are history. throw followed by retrib nothing you can as an opponent. If the opponent has a couple protectors upfront you cannibalize Kong the stun protectors don’t get to block so they are useless. Even if the opponent has Leo you can still cannibalize it won’t matter he can’t kill no one. This all leads to one of two things you have a a team turn/ give turn coming up with a charged retrib and bane double poisen eat. Or you have Kong throw Getting a charged retribution hit followed by team turn/ give turn repeat throw followed by death retribution. There is no counter to it. That is an unstoppable opening.
Possible counters are stun but it don’t matter because you have a team turn/ give turner. Robin can’t kill anyone except Kong trigging stun and bringing in Bane. So he is useless. Assisted thunder will never have the chance to hit anyone. All the desperate double is useless. For one two reason he could simply cannibalize Kong stun them wait for team turn. only viable counter is to have the same exact team. Running all death revenges upfront is no counter but just the act of a desperate man. Lol That’s when you know there is a problem.
I know Zib is a first one so he is supposed to be awesome but so are atra and metathor and they suck compared to him. Every one who has Kong and Zib runs it and they are all at the top for a reason because that opening is broke. No strategy needed. Garenteed 4 or 5 monster lead out the gate. It’s not supposed to be that way. nothing should be guaranteed. This of course is just one mans opinion. But when teams like this come they will all be are the top

Pretty self explanatory with the topic. If you disagree I’m going to explain why you are wrong.

Great Statement to start a discussion :smiley: And i feel like its you complaining about the same thing as in your last zib/kong thread and it will end the same way, people telling you that there are ways to counter it and the other half most likely will agree. Nothing new will be added to this debate and if you wanted to make the devs aware of this issue and express your opinion that you feel like this needs to be changed, you already did it.

you seem to really hate that opening. I don’t like it either because I can’t find a good counter but it’s not like it’s a garanteed win. As a frontline it’s certainly the best in the current meta but with a strong mid and end team you can still win ( I think because I never won against that  :frowning: )

Doc you offered no counter point to anything I said. Gun I beat a version of Kong and Zib but not the one I mentioned. to say the least that opening is a garenteed lead to start a match.

I have beaten every zibel opener I have faced but the team set up you explained is the perfect opener I see no way of countering it
The best way to nerf or stop this unbeatable combo is to change how retribution works
So you can’t activate it off throw
And even then it’s still crazy strong so I have to agree with you thill

Since i think youre right, i felt no need to offer a counter point. I just think that this discussion is going to take the same way as in the last zib/kong thread you started.

Well if we are talking perfect teams how about the opener: Aegis Leo MechaLevi Shadowyrm. Bane on 5. your setup won’t be able to kill Levi so we’re on a who’s TT goes first kind of battle. :lol:

I’ll skip with Leo Wyrm protect kill your aegis to HG Leo kills off your aegis - you cant stun - kong hits my Aegis - Double ret cant kill anything on my side safe for Shadow which you will kill - my bane drops in.

My TT goes first I win your TT goes first you win. THE OPENER not the match.

if you decide to not kill my shadowwyrm and my TT comes up I’ll be able to use Crescendo blast twice on Leo to kill your TT or just use shadowwyrm damage to kill your banedragon together with Aegis give turn (triple ultradusk)

And we are back to where I was originally… The legendary team turners are too strong something has to be done to them. nerf their defense - remove their stun immunity - reduces their speed, plenty of options.

all in all the game will always remain P2W - its going to be hard to balance out every strategy… but from what I can see EVERY single strong opener involves a legendary teamturner

Really think the issue is kongs speed, as I have said before baha and kongs attack is nearly equal but baha speed is 34%. Give Kong 34% speed and the zibel Kong combo falls apart. I would be fine with throw not activating DR but think it would be better to nerf Kong. I have zibel and Kong and do not run the strat though.

Really do not think anything needs to be nerfed though just think how TT works needs to be looked at so you can not use back to back TT. Maybe have give turn be locked for 150 seconds after using TT. TT can not be used within 300 seconds of each other.

Big difference Hidan your team can lose to other teams. Ex soulstealer frost combo with aegis or gearcroc. or if the front line don’t have sleepers or protectors you don’t offer much offense. The team I described will wipe out soulstealer combo and any other.

If Ziberius is broken, team turners are really really really broken. If you set up a decent strategy you can wipe an entire line (and not only) without problems… Ziberius is strong (he is a first one, i think that first ones are supposed to be strong) but if you nerf him he’ll be unuseful. Rexkong is a good monster. It’s their combination that is really strong. If you nerf them, you killed two monsters for pvp.

In theory if the legendary TT lose their stun immunity the combo you just mentioned will be stunned to oblivion. Anyway.

The developers are looking into doing something about the oppresiveness of the legendary Team turners. Let’s see how this combo will fair after the changes.

First one doesn’t mean strong look at meta he’s a joke, atra is only useful for the UC.

Zib is still broke with out Kong. Just cannabolize a death revenger bring Bain in give turn same thing. Zib speed need to be slowed down to atra level which is 42 TU I think. That way protectors go first and at least assisted thunder has a chance. he would still be super powerful just have a couple weaknesses

its great that you’ve brought this up for discussion but i think what you are stating is not a problem with ziberius but rather with the team turn/give turn monsters. If you don’t have those team turn/give turn monsters is that combo as broken as it sounds?

He is not broken without Kong the cannibalize into bane strategy is just an effective counter to SS and a very effective one. Just because Zibel counters your frostrider SS does not mean he is broken. Hidan has beat me when I used zibel cannibalize into Bane, it is not actually hard to do.

Washab If you take Zib out the line up that line isn’t much. The team turners and Zib are on the same footing. They are both problems. Zib has to many options to soon. He is currently to fast. If they slow him to 42 TU just like atra that team is still crazy strong but at least it has some weaknesses.
Do you have a legendary TT Scotty? If you do run the team I described and see how many times you lose a opening if you run it right. Even at 42tu he would still counter soul and frost if left awake as would aegis.The line up I described is currently broken.

I do not, I do not run zibel Kong or TT Kong zibel. If anything throw not activating DR would be the best fix I think. Then you can build a counter to him without worrying about losing 3 monster before you get a turn. Remember he was not an issue before Zibel Kong and most people thought he was useless before that.

If they slow him he is dead meat both in pve (in pve he already is dead meat) and pvp. Frontlines with him and rexkong are strong like night night frontlines were. But as you know with new monsters they introduced you haven’t problems to counter a night night. I think nerf him or rexkong would make them unusable… 

Nothing needs to be nerfed just look at how the skills work.

I think the most balanced would be to slow him to atra level but if they don’t do that then taking away throws activation of retribution would be second best.