Ahuizard, too much?

So my two cents I guess.

I’ve always judged this games Sweepers by a simple division: Mythic Monster = 3-4 Kills before it dies, Legendary 2-3 before it dies, SE 1-2 before it dies, and anything less is typically there to enhance the above stated factions.

Obviously this rudimentary scale is not accurate, but it’s how I decide what Sweepers are worthwhile or not, based upon if they meet or exceed the above criteria.

Ahuizard is kind of on another level as yes its squishy like most Sweepers, but it serves dual role as every time it gets a turn, typically it has a high chance to get a kill as the only restriction is RAW and seeing how it deals so much damage for only 50TU on a Stun Immune monster (an ability I fully believe should be restricted to Legends and Mythics only) this makes Ahui an immediate problem that will most of the time not only follow the aforementioned judgment scale for SE Sweepers of getting 1-2 kills, but often exceeds that by betting 3-5 kills before going down.

I’m not sure in what way Ahuizard should be handled, but it’s quite apparent that he is indeed a monster of Legendary Status with an SEs cost attached to it. Do with this statement as you wish, I’m not calling for any severe nerf, but I do feel its worthwhile to be looked at.

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Nerf it by buffing it’s stats and adding 3 cost to it. And a SS. Oh wait it’d be a legend now

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Another thing you didn’t mention is the control ahuizard can give. With raw throw at 42tu, you can ap lock someone and take over a game similar to how novadrake can. It’s also almost never dead weight since it is stun immune and can generate rocks/sweep with bloodcrave once it gets a kill. There are plenty of super epics and legendaries that are great under certain circumstances, but ahuizard is almost always a huge threat.

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Exactly, what people don’t realize (or don’t want to mention) is that it requires basically minimum teambuilding to ensure Ahuizard is not only never deadweight, but also very threatening. How many other SE monsters that can guarantee that?

The only ways to render him useless is by using Knockback, Petrify Revenge monsters or Nagandia.

He’s a badly designed monster

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I’d be down with that tbh. As for a Secret Skill, perhaps LINK Summon Minions?

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Nah, Swift Dual Catapult for the win

I agree too

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Ok I’m late to the party but I gotta agree on this one. Ahuizard is absurdly common, and I find myself unable to justify NOT using him. Stale meta as KD says. I could name so many legends that just don’t offer the sheer efficiency and reliability of him. He’s not the strongest monster in the game by a LONG shot, but the real problem lies in him being a SE. How do I justify using, say, Bonetalon, Heavenshorn or Rattlewyrm over him? They’re somewhat similar in practice, except that they move like molasses in comparison to ahui. There’s plenty of other viable SEs, to be sure, but none of them pull off low TU sweeping in such dramatic fashion. 50 TU sweeping is ABSURDLY powerful, even when it’s not able to ignore protectors! This simply isn’t something I think a SE should have.

To address the counter points being made:

“You’ll just make the low level players suffer by taking away an option everyone has access to!”

If a single monster has that much of an impact on the meta, especially a SE, then… he just shouldn’t have it. I don’t suppose you remember Chronozeros’s debut? He had 60% speed, and 100 TU faststrike. That doesn’t sound like much nowadays, but in 2016… yeesh. What followed was 2 of the most repetitive, unfun pvp exhibitions I’ve ever participated in. EVERYONE was using chrono, and the tide of the battle simply came down to whose chrono is bonused more, and if not that then plain stupid rng. The devs took the hint and toned chrono wayyy down, and things returned to normal. Now, nowadays a reversion of that nerf wouldn’t be amiss, but that’s beside the point. Of course Ahuizard is nowhere near as dramatic as that, but the principle is still there. If you pass out a mon for most everyone to use and make him too strong, you can expect to see that mon a LOT. And we’ve seen ahuizard around a hell of a lot.

“He’s not THAT strong. He dies to a sneeze!”

Well, he is a SE after all. But if you want to argue he’s easy to deal with, you have to consider that “dealing with” doesn’t always have to mean killing. For example, SEs on average are more vulnerable to stun than legends and myths… as for ahui? Nope. Stun immunity is incredibly powerful, and the other half of what makes this guy so insane. If you don’t have sleep or a source of damage on hand that he can’t dispatch at a moment’s notice, you’re just out of luck.

“But he’ll become unuseable…”

Nothing drastic needs to happen! The 70 TU idea definitely seems like the best course of action. Still pretty damn powerful for a relatively lethal move that can bypass protectors, and certainly for a SE. And one kill is all he needs to transition to bloodcrave and sweep with reliable damage and no dependency on rocks, at the cost of extra TU. Still very much viable, but not so oppressive.

As an alternative solution… let’s suppose we allow him to keep 50 TU raw throw. If so, my proposal is to either remove stun immunity or reduce his speed. An insane tool like that should require much more effort to gain access to, and lack of stun immune would do away with that ability to fit literally anywhere in your team. Just throwing ideas out. I don’t mind this guy being viable at all, I only mind that he’s this insanely common when literally hundreds of SE options exist.

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why don’t we nerf every common unit at the top because people don’t like to play against them? I don’t get this take at all. you guys keep bringing this up as if it is justifiable to nerf a unit because it is too common. I also extremely hate playing against dracorosa, malwing (or whatever that units name is), infernicorn, and angelion because they have been played in every single team and they are VERY common so we should nerf them too? I swear top players of this game always have the same mind set as the casual players of other competitive games like YuGiOH tcg, mtga, or mobas. if the game gets “stale”, it’s the devs fault for making us rely on rng to obtain certain units that we want/need to use.

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Im with Elizabethchan,you can’t change our opinions by coming with counters against the counter of the main topic @Lucrayzor

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Yes, actually.

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How else am I suppose to make my case? Just accept what you say without question?

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Point missed by a longshot.

The reason a nerf against Ahuizard is warranted is because it VASTLY outmatches all the others SEs in terms of sweeping potential and is a blatant case of a poorly balanced unit.

This is the whole point. Too much potential for basically no possible drawback. Ahuizard can be setup (and it’s very trivial) so that he NEVER becomes deadweight and he carried out his purpose flawlessly. There is NO other 5★, and I say no other, that can sweep as reliably regardless of what monsters the opponent has.

If you have Scarleguard and the opponent has no Stun or Toxic targets, he becomes deadweight.
If you have Searguard and there are no Chrono targets, he has to get rid of a stunned enemy (hardly a good thing) to get a kill and if there are none he’s deadweight.
If you have Galvbane and the enemy has no Protectors or adequate Stun protection, he’s deadweight.
Thlugs and P.G.s (especially the former) are deadweight if you don’t build the team around them.

The only situation where Ahuizard is deadweight is when the player is dumb enough not to give him essential Throw fodder, as he’s gonna create Rockoids by himself at the meager time of 50sec after a single kill! In any other case, you either kill it or get slowly killed. For a 10 COST MONSTER.

Stale meta is merely a consequence of that. Ahuizard is bad and that’s the main issue.

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Yes, then lie down and cry

I definitely get that but then let’s make fun threads to make other SE as good as him? I geniunly think he is one of the few great SEs in the game and I would be very sad to see it get nerfed.

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YES

ARBORGIAS NEEDS TO BE AS GREAT AS IT WAS DURING HUNTER ISLAND

btw @Lucrayzor made a buff thread and I proposed some ideas. Lucrayzor’s thread is MUCH more complete though!

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Not to make them quite as good as him, but I definitely agree more strong PvP SEs would be great

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How about we nerf dusicyon because it is CRAZILY popular in pvp, makes the meta stale, and its basically an awakened mythic.

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He too needs a rework. His main role is preventing the meta from becoming a one-shot meta, and that shouldn’t change, but I wouldn’t complain if he became less annoying to deal with.

He needs to be dispatched before other monsters because of his constant shielding, and stunning/sleeping him is a waste most of the time because you HAVE to kill him in order to progress. At least he gets countered HARD by Poison.

Imo if he had RAW Shield Self (70sec) instead of Leech it would already be a nice step in the right direction. Also, making Shield Field activate only if the monster is not asleep or if his seconds are below 200 would be wonderful.

This thread is starting to become redundant :upside_down_face:

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