Same
And to be honest
Fire Link break the Game
Players with rank 70 beating me cause Canish-Fire Link is extremely broken
And is not fair i should make a team just for those guys
Like I said earlier, a single tranquilizer can end the game
1 Like
I used to run 3 abs +1 counter (leogiest + ahui )
To give turn to 1 but even then it was not engh .
Those tranquils are just broken rn just 1 tranquil and u lose instant control (2v4)
But 1 is not engh they love playing 2 because why not .
I even have a backbiter but that just get slept /blowback or killed lmao 
And all tht got reduced when i got into stun immune + sleep protection
Now i HV only 1 stun protection (bulbie) a backbite (Stun immune too)
Sleep protection (tricarnium )
Done
I do 
More like , less counter IMO😅
They should make a new cheap monster can extremely counter that thing. Plumehemoth, cobra,Gearcroc and gearcroc (shiny) is one of example can handle tranquilizer . Since the opponent forced hit them, so they can’t lock US 2 vs 4 for long time . Except they run true hit.
And joke on you , even we run full stun imune team sometimes they can stun us with disturb like token or vineeye 
2 Likes
It’s not that the tools provided aren’t good enough. They’re certainly a lot better now. It’s just that they’re too easy to remove and then you’re exposed.
Devs have struggled to get away from
Stun immune spam for years now.
But to be clear, as per my OP, I don’t want stun kicked out of the game, just limited. But this would work for any other lock too. A full lock is not fun to fight against. Rocklock could be limited in this way I guess if a restriction was applied to disruption. Same with sleep.
I genuinely think a restriction list would work better this way.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It depends on how things line up and tbh it’s better this way, rather than stun protection completely shutting down stun.
Although I will say in practice if you use an absorber in 4th and 6th with everything else weak to stun that’s kind of asking to get stunned by the teams who are desperate to win with stun. You either accept your team is weak to those opponents, or you have something like Wraithhost, protector conversion, protectors, camouflage or something else that will help you deal with those opponents. For example, my current team has Aethereon in the FL then no stun protection until Bloom in 8th and again not too much after. I know it’s weak to stun in theory but I use a mixture of sleep, protectors, give turn and camouflage so when I do meet teams desperate to stun me they often struggle to perform things properly.
I know the easier option is to spam stun immunes or, for many people in the last year, use Spectrefox (s). However, I don’t think it’s the only option and I think “they get killed, then you get stunned” is oversimplifying things and making it sound like it’s an unresolved problem… even though yes it does play out like that a fair amount of the time, especially if you build teams the way we’d like to build them (where one stun absorber/counter gets the job done and allows us to play anything we’d like around it).
Side question… have you genuinely found sleep to be a problem in PvP? I think it’s very much under control. In fact, I think with the popularity of Spectrefox (s) it’s being dealt with a bit too much right now. For a long time there have been strong enough counters that you wouldn’t want to build a full sleep team. It’s better to just utilise sleep a bit in a team amongst other things.
Yeah I run Void in FL to bring in 6th if needed. always work though but I’m enjoying my new stunnable monsters too much 
No I don’t find Sleep a problem in PvP. It’s well balanced, but it’s an example, to say not just stun would be limited.
I don’t find stun an issue either, I just think it’s so oppressive when team building. So to deal with it effectively, makes the game more boring and makes other people’s teams boring .
I just think a restriction setting would work better by limiting types rather than individual monsters.
3 Likes
give jerbo stun counter!
#BuffJerbo
3 Likes
Also, can I point out that you’re saying that between slots 1-6, at least halve of the monsters should in some way deal with stun, as 2 is not enough. This is exactly my point. 3 monsters for stun. It’s restricted
If stun was limited, then you wouldnt have players ‘desparate to stun’.
I still think it would be a better restriction method than the list
I‘d like to point out a few things that are independent from certain monsters.
Stun Martyr in general is not a good move for stun protection as people who want to stun you usual run more than one stunner so the the moment it dies it exposes you to more stun. I know in theory this sounds cool like a deadweight with the ability to passively remove itself but stun is so oppressive that the passive is actually rather bad. I don’t use martyr for stun protection. It’s not good enough.
The pure existence of tranquilizers basically makes most absorbers useless because you’re exposing yourself to 2v4. Whenever I have Tranqs in my team, I intentionally leave enemy absorbers on the field because I know it will give me an advantage later on.
@NMEGaryOak is the only player ever to have made a comeback against me with rescuing give turn and that’s a.) because he’s a very good player and b.) that nurse whose name I always forget is an awakened myth with great synergy with the rest of his team.
Stun converters need to be more like Momo. As long as an awakened myth like Onyxia dies to searguard it can hardly be considered stun protection. Same goes for angel. Actually reverting the first angel nerf would be appropriate now.
Stuff like Leira which will replace your stun protection with a useless stunnable protector denying your next monster to enter basically forces you to not rely on a single stun protection and turn towards stun immunes instead.
Also @Killerdog you sometimes get very defensive when people try to educate you about PvE in general and UC in particular. And rightly so: you’re the best PvE player out there. However, I am always wondering how easily you turn down complaints about the PvP meta when people who play a lot more PvP than you raise their concerns. Especially when talking about stun: You own awakened Aetheron and awakened Bastia. Those two are basically the best stun protection out there lol. No offense by the way :-).
7 Likes
I also think this would be a really good answer to rocklock
I’ve always wondered why onyxia is full attack with 3/5 moves being completely non dependent on damage and the other two only being mildly dependent on it, I’d love a standard def onyxia that wouldn’t die to a strong gust of wind
3 Likes
When it comes to PvE I see people make very incorrect statements, so that’s why I’ll go shooting them down. E.g. When just a few days ago someone mentioned using Purpie in levels 2000+, that’s clearly wrong.
When it comes to PvP things aren’t so black and white. There’s a lot of meta dependency, how things line up, etc. Also, sweeping statements are made with a lot of bias involved. So I don’t take what people say as fact if my own opinion differs, even if they’re very experienced. Just don’t take what I say in debate too seriously, because at the end of the day it’s me offering my own perspective and I too am wrong about things. Stun has always been a hot debate and whenever we’ve actually boiled things down there are a lot of common beliefs between me and other experienced players here, but we differ a little on some things. Also, what I’m often arguing against is specific statements made. For example, in your post just now you say that stun martyrs aren’t good enough, but I’ve personally found them to be very effective and a big improvement over stun absorbers. Similarly, Duck earlier inferenced that stun bisectors are bad, which I disagree with because whenever I’ve played with mine (Pitayagon, or just mark protection monsters) I’ve noticed it makes stun play a much smaller impact in battles to the point it does not feel strong. An end-game I made with Magmagund + Pitayagon back at the anniversary never had any trouble with stun because the opponent needed to kill both before stun was going to do enough against me.
So to make things simple… in my eyes, the best fix to the stun immune spam / general stun problem is to keep making more viable tools for stun protection (particularly stun bisectors and stun martyrs) and to make more ways to come back from heavy stun. This should naturally help people turn away from stun immune spam as it becomes easy enough to do well in PvP with other team building methods.
I’ll also add that I think the Devs should be more keen to make legendaries and mythics with stun martyr passives that give benefit when the monster dies (when they’re stunned over 400s). E.g. purify + shield the team, fully heal the team, damage enemies + half heal the team, revive next in line (could even be to come right back in immediately). These would be very effective I reckon.
Getting back to the actual intention of this thread though… to add an additional purpose to the restriction list where it restricts use of certain strategies, not just by picking out certain monsters. I think it’s a good idea which has some applications and the Devs should probably try it from time to time to deal with a particular archetype and see what the effect is. I just think in a broader sense some of these issues like stun need dealing with properly too.
reminds me of a certain fox.
Would you see any issue if stun was restricted to having just 1 full stun and one single stun? Personally I think the world would flourish and all wars would end.
Restrict the summon of tokens except friendly rockoids to 2.
Sleep maybe 2-3.
Token disruption I kind of hate and almost every person I’ve spoken to flat out hates token disruption. So I think any restriction to those would be nice.
Sleep I think is incredibly unnecessary, the counters are just so good already. So I don’t see a point in that.
Restriction stun so heavily would be fine in small bursts, but definitely not that much all the time because it would warp things way too much. I remember special rules where stun wasn’t allowed at all and some things became very strong. I feel stun plays an important role in PvP and the threat of it is pretty good, it’s just slightly too much of a factor in team building.
1 Like
I agree on token and sleep tbf. Tbh we’d barely feel a restriction of 3 sleep. If stun was limited to 1-2. It would still play an incredibly important part of the meta. I’m not saying I want it removed completely. I just wish it was more of an inconvenience than a game winner.
A restriction of 1 full and 1 single would be nice tbh. You’d still need to protect against it. Especially as some can be used multiple times.
Hope we got a “season ban list” in pvp that something like atleast only three monster is banned and cannot use in pvp for whole season and next season will replace by new one’s. I know there’s the semi and limited monsters but ban list is cool tho.
Unlike semi and limited the banlist helps a lot with it so we could stop the other meta entering the pvp and see a new line up made by other strong players and maybe help the newbies with this.