I’ll give you the very short and clear version:
Battle 1 - could have done something good so was killed before getting a turn
Battle 2 - did nothing, sat as dead weight for a few hundred seconds
Battle 3 - met a scenario she’s built to be good for but the moves are too clunky she couldn’t do anything meaningful to affect the battle and was easy to ignore for a while
Could you justify on what basis lime is higher in tier than van ?
Feel free to give feedback in the tier list thread. I’m always trying to bring together as much knowledge as I can to improve the tier list
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Ah okie , I’ll bring up my disagreements in that thread then . Lime higher than van is just not convincing
Lime can do a lot of Bronzeshell disruption. 50TU put a Bronzeshell next in line 5 times is brutal. On her first turn she has a pretty big impact with a 30TU knockback that be followed up by either Bronzeshell disruption or double counterslash. If you’re “losing” and the enemy team has killed 1+ of your monsters since Lime entered then you’ll have a Bronzeshell on the battlefield so you get to do unwanted equality to immediately kill an enemy of your choosing.
Lime is definitely not anything special, but she’s typically an insane tank that if left alone will heavily disrupt and slow down the enemy team. The opponent can’t really ignore her, which is a big positive even if her absolute floor is she’s immediately killed and all she did was slow you down with the Bronzeshell you added to your own team.
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Lime with those 5x quick shell spam can be really annoying if left on the field. Other than that she has high tu and pretty design.
Van Sith can be a deadweight, while Lime can just sit and spam shells next in line and then kill herself.
I was bored and awakened Lime and then haven’t touched her once I finished her BQ.
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Another thing about Lime is she combines well with Supershell and Baublebasher, a combo that’s already reasonably popular in late-games. With Baublebasher you can slayerbane the Bronzeshells to put them on half health, which is super brutal. Unwanted conversion is infinite use so can be repeatedly used on a Supershell over and over to charge retribution on Baublebasher.
This makes sense . My problem is not with lime or her utility (I wonder why those token spammers haven’t awakened her 
) .
My doubt is what made you conclude van should be in lowest tier if not same tier as lime . Maybe I’ll wait a little more to correct my view about her .
People I faced van with had a good team building around her .
Yeah, that’s the case. If something requires a heavy teambuilding around it to just work, then it can’t be considered as a high tier monster.
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Van sith can be a deadweight is mostly theoretical . On a practical level , she should remove stun absorbers and that’s her priority job and I’m sure she will face atleast 2 stun absorbers every match . Not against you though .
About lime is also theoretical . Noone can actually make a reliable team using her unless they break their head .
I see gier and angel eye mythic way higher in this tier list . While satomi is lower .
By this logic , these 2 should be at G tier .
There are definite inconsistencies in how we have rated monsters for PvP in tier list . Even though berry has strong moveset , she should be in one of the lower tiers so that new players don’t prioritise her over van sith . We should discuss these things in ur tier list thread . That would be really good discussion !!
The tier list nor my judgements are perfect, but what made me move Lime up to E tier was her buffs that made her actually a genuine problem for the opponent on the battlefield. That, coupled with huge defence makes her a strong monster when the opponent doesn’t have a move to kill her. So she’s actually somewhat decent.
Van Sith will too often be dead weight or underwhelming. When a monster can be ignored a fair chunk of the time, that makes them far far weaker. In practice we try to leave the opponent with monsters that don’t do much in the scenario, that’s often how battles are won and it’s why filling a team full of threats is surprisingly successful. If a monster does literally nothing except 200TU guaranteed kill (e.g. Skyherra) it’s probably better than one which half the time sits there doing nothing. So Lime is actually quite a good baseline monster for the tier list where it’s showcasing what a low speed monster which cannot be ignored is positioned.
I’ve been intensely analysing monsters for many years. I’ve done it enough to be able to blur the lines between what’s theory and what’s in practice. I urge you to shift your opinion with what I’m saying about how Van Sith will play out.
Needing a heavy build around is one of the factors to consider. No need to be too hyperbolic with it 
That’s fine perfectly tbh . Van sith enables other stunners . There is no point in running her if you don’t plan to create some sort of stun lock .
That’s exactly why mr.x awakened her .
She serves a purpose entirely different from what monsters like carmilla do
She doesn’t enable stun lock. Her tokens have Stun Martyr Passive. The only reliable thing she does is removing stun absorbers.
If you create lamps then you don’t want to stun them and kill them. You want to keep them alive for multiple turns with your other stun converters.
Also, stun lock is a dead strategy now as it was overused by people.
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You said quiet easily ! Then one can remove stun absorbers and choose not to gaslight. ( Haha how ironic)
It sounds like you’re saying…
Meeting stun absorbers = echo stun pulse → timecrush double → bloodbite
Meeting stun counters = gaslight → bloodbite
Is that correct?
Also, how does this “set up other stunners” or “create some sort of stun lock”?
I believe this would be the optimal way to play her. There are monsters with TU increase passives , active skills , solo stunners . One needs to explore .
I’m trying to convey that people saying she “can” be a deadweight is too far fetched. Ofcourse coltraz has better options , it’s obvious he won’t find her entertaining .