(Moderator edit: Split from the Selene discussion thread)
Tokens are absolutely broken, not because of the mid ED counter (they don’t do much against ED but with normal teams). Why are these things still playable and this strong after 8 years of meta, I don’t understand. Can we please remove motordragon from the game?
Last season I ran bomboid and found it helped immensely
Everyone is sleeping on this S tier oldie I see 
I don’t need no bum-boid
What is your name in the Game Bro ?
Gp73
Bruh 
I also don’t understand how token lock is still a thing. No tokens should be alive after 200 seconds (like rockoids). It’s such a long and boring game every time you face token lock.
Stun was nerfed so people couldn’t be locked out of the game, so what’s the point of allowing token lock?
Really?
Stun lock was nerfed because it restricted teambuilding so much that if you ran 4 stunnable monsters early on, there was a good chance you could get stunned to 400 secs and lose the game so everyone just ran stun immunes and the game got stale.
Token lock is annoying but doesn’t restrict to the same degree. I find Bomboid helps a lot against that and sleep and then it’s an easy win
It does restrict teambuilding because you have to play good monsters that also have a way to sacrifice teammates or else they are unplayable. The fact that you are forced to run an ap rockoid from a shop is not a good argument against for the strategy. The abundance of characters with low TU sweeping makes tokens just too strong. It doesn’t even matter that they eventually got your tokens killed or (in my case willhelmina entered), HP boosted Charypdia/doomgo will just sweep through your team
Didn’t say it doesn’t restrict team building. Just not to the same degree where you’re restricted to a passive. Then again, just like having to run purify etc
Weirdly unown complained for months about stun lock he made so many threads about it arguing that locks is bad and killing the game , he even used stun lock by himself to push devs to nerf stun , he contributed hugely in that , but after that he is running a boxjaw token lock with decree of mercy all the time , so yes it’s not normal that some lock are nerfed but others are allowed
Quite to the contrary, stun lock is faaaaar easier to setup than 1 shot at box lock due to there only being 1 monster that has decree of mercy. There are like 200 stun monsters and 50000 ways to stun someone
So like we gonna ignore the amount advantage it gives you until you can remove the tokens from your team? Like Royal decree is the least of my worries when it comes motordragon/Jackolene/Vood guy/santa that already slowed the team so much that fast sweepers take it from you completely. It’s basicly playing stun locking the opponent but they just skip turns
The token monsters themselves take space and are not that great on the field usually. Kill backbiter and you’ll be fine 
also you two seem to be arguing about the different sides of same coin, kaby complains about 2 token monsters disabling a team and you about 5 monsters causing a disrupt fest
Can you not miss the point please? Like I know how to deal with them. The point is that you have to play certain units to counter top tier strategy that was top tier for years and still is and nobody here complains about it enough. I know why tho. Og players love token control for some reason. I don’t think it’s health for the game but sure. Let’s just nerf new things that restrict team building but tokens? Nah it’s fine.
I understand your frustration, but the other side of the argument is if we nerf all of the strats that bring control, F2P, mid range players and low spenders will complain that it’s just a slug fest and high stats are too dominant.
Perhaps it’s better to have a few more accessible counters? - and by that I mean moves rather than individual monsters etc
Not really missing the point here. Good decisions play a role, I find it easier to play against token spammers by killing their backbiter and playing it slow and not running into it face first
Sure buddy
Me making good decisions against Charypdia/Prixis FL from a few months and beating it because I’m built different (my name is Unown) 
Are you homeless? Just get a home, stupid smh my head