I disagree with the appropriation of some of logic applied and reasoning, so I still vote buff. A 250 TU survivor move certainly won’t hurt.
Figured as much. When we have a discussion like this in the future please don’t push me aside and make me look like a fool while you persist in pushing your own agenda. You want to make claims about democratic voting and such but will not engage in any thoughtful discussion or listen to other’s points of view. You simply want to speak nice phrases like “improve PvP diversity” or “buff a thing more accessible to lower ranked players 
” then point at how you got a bunch of votes.
Here’s my case:
Survivor is another form of bloodthirst and the issue with the monsters you want to buff is that they’re old monsters with outdated movesets. It’s nothing to do with survivor! It’s a bad idea to add to the complexity of the game to have survivors charging at different speeds.
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I am always think that “survivor is bonus move or just PvE move” . I am prefer they increase the damage ,its hurt to see 300 sec waiting and easily get disturb . And its also hurt they can’t even have “big reward” for waiting 300sec (rarely one shot medium buff monster)
Wow!!!
I just don’t want to go back and forth all night with you. I know how this goes!!! You quote every sentence and then it just keeps going and going.
It’s really draining and I hope to end this needless discussion. In order to defend myself I now have to write as much as you do.
I’ve tried to be respectful this entire time, except a joke about the length of your posts which is harmless enough, yet you have appeared to be combative throughout this exchange. I have not tried to push you aside, I simply tried to guide you to my reply to Coltraz to help you understand.
You accuse me of not reading your posts, which I understand due to the joke I made, but since I referenced that all of your points were on other moves, clearly I did read the post.
However, this has some hypocrisy because had you read my original post, I think you clearly would have understood. Points like
- Survivor not Vanquish
- It does recoil damage (clearly not talking about drain survivor then). I mentioned this in the OP AND the other thread.
- The whole exchange with Coltraz also made
It clear when he asked the question about megabomb, vanquish etc.
So I would say you need to read the post rather than just typing - because I think the above points made it clear enough.
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Since you’re not satisfied with me trying to end this discussion and have attacked me further (which is really poor) and then requested that I respond, I shall do so.
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Comparing survivor to bloodthirst is a poor comparison. BT can be charged with a simple double attack move in 100 TU. It scales and does crazy damage. Great for PvE. Survivor will always take 300TU. I understand the repulse reset comparison, but my point is, compared to most other moves, survivor is a difficult requirement.
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The community clearly handled the difference of Survivors TU: ( the actual move survivor) being 80 TU or 130. So having a difference in time to activate between survivor ( the move) and for example drain survivor I’m sure would be fine. Give them credit. Just read the skill description. Drain survivor clearly has more benefit than recoil survivor, so survivor being less TU makes perfect sense.
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Yes it’s not on any mythic, but since I don’t think you read the OP, I referenced helping newer players here. We need to consider those.
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Also, you often bring moves vs the monsters their attributed to into the argument, but this doesn’t account for the future tense where survivor might be applied on future monsters. You said yourself that you’d like to see 200TU survivor moves!!! So your own points are almost fighting each other.
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Since you did reference monsters, I personally think we need Wraithost to be strong due to the prevalence of tokens. It’s so easy to disable leaving it on mid health and deadweight.
Since you say I simply claim to promote diversity without any points, I refer you back to the OP where my points were made.
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You’ve made points, I’ve made points, we really don’t need to keep going.
Ultimately, I certainly do listen to others ideas, but I can’t do that until you actually understand the conversation. I will post a screenshot below.
I’m disappointed with how you’ve handled this thread tbh. Not reading it clearly, attacking me on multiple occasions. As a moderator, this has been awful.
I’m sorry for giving you such a hard time but this thread started from us having a conversation in another thread so I came over into this and offered up insight and such then got told that I was talking about the wrong thing and had zero engagement with my points… only condescending comments (it’s not that you joked about its length, it’s that you ignored all the content and decided to make me look silly after my effort writing it with both a joke then saying I was talking about the wrong thing). You treat me this way literally every time.
When you have an idea you like to express it and turn it into a reality in the game by seeking the support from others by doing things like polls and saying whatever comes into your head that seems somewhat justified about your idea and sounds good. What I like to do is a lot of logical reasoning and figuring out if something is truly the correct path. We’re on very different wavelengths and it becomes especially problematic because you neither like to go that deep into thought nor do you like someone speaking prominently in disagreement to you (or maybe just in the way I express it all) so your reaction is what I’ve experienced and described here.
So please know none of it is personal, but I find it very difficult to offer anything to your opinionated discussions because you refuse to engage with me in a way I can converse and we end up like this. There are a bunch of things in your post just now which are simply wrong, like how my suggestion of 200TU survivor moves contradicts other things I said (this suggestion was at the time I thought you were saying ALL forms of survivor would have the change, so I said let’s separate it so only monsters that need the buff get it). Likewise, if I made a long post going through things about what you’ve said I’m sure you’ll say a bunch of what I say is wrong.
For this particular topic (base survivor getting 300s → 250s)… I think you haven’t thought through the implications enough and properly figured out whether it’s a good thing for the game or not. Stand by your suggestion all you like, but please appreciate my view is not from misunderstanding your suggestion or anything silly like that, it’s from evaluating things in my own way and the purpose of my posts here was to try and put that forward + engage with you about it to see if I could change your mind (or open it to my other solutions).
Just 3 minute
Im generally more than happy to engage in discussion, but I cannot engage in a meaningful discussion if we’re talking about different things. I tried to show you what we’re talking about and you’ve simply been rude in response, so I don’t really want to engage further. As I said earlier, from a mod it’s really poor.
I make polls to try to avoid the back and forth as much as possible.
Yes ! that of 80tu is too weak and it is very difficult to kill with it, except that of 130tu is more powerful crimseais where chronotitan can testify to it
Maybe that’s because as you demonstrated here…
You genuinely were in fact talking about the wrong thing.
So now that’s proven, In response to the first time you didn’t understand, I said.
Then when you STILL didn’t follow I said
I don’t think any of that is rude, or disrespectful. The only joke I said was I’d need to take a day off to read your posts lol.
However you began getting hostile and said
By your final point. I wasn’t in the mood to discuss further. But I did anyway for your benefit, offering bullet points to each of your arguments demonstrating that I am certainly reading and thinking about them, when you’re actually on the right discussion.
To say I’m not thinking things through thoroughly enough is a little rude too tbh. There are more passive aggressive digs in your posts.
Ultimately I hope you see here that the hostility has come from you. It certainly does feel personal.
@Killerdog if you want to engage further, why not end this ■■■■ show of a thread and message directly to save the popcorn for another day. Because it’s bound to sell out in the morning.
Once I became aware you were talking only about the basic survivor move I then switched to talking about that. I complained about how you’d treated my posts (the ones talking about all forms of survivor) because it really wasn’t clear (you hadn’t specified it and in the other thread I thought that’s what we were talking about), but that was alongside talking about the monsters with the basic survivor move. To that you replied with this:
I.e. Refusing all engagement.
It’s to that I became rude and dissected what you’re like with these threads (consciously or not).
By that time yes. You had gotten hostile before that. These posts were getting longer. I didn’t want it to end like this basically but you insisted.
So I tried to end the discussion and just say I’m sticking to my vote and that entitled you to become self admittedly rude. Excellent.
The hostility before that was because you’d wound me up. That post itself wasn’t hostile at all and I specifically asked for your engagement at the end. I don’t know how you expected me to not get wound up by a reply like you gave me 
We’ve had this issue many times in the past where you refuse to engage with my points or logic, you simply want to write your own points then to mine you make statements like “let’s go with the democracy of the poll” in response to mine. I’m sorry again for confronting you so much about it today, but it’s very annoying
So now you’ve admitted to being rude. And admitted to being hostile.
I simply tried to help you see you were not discussing the right thing. I have quoted this above. I offered points in my original post. I offered points to your points too. Demonstrating my throught process.
I have tried multiple times to end this discussion to avoid this.
That’s fine Chris! It really is!
Do you know what annoys me? Going back and forth, quoting each other over and over like this. Arguing solves nothing so yes! I do refer you to the poll. Take action and vote!
That does NOT give you the right to be rude or hostile.
Me replying with messages to short for your satisfaction also does NOT give you the right to be rude or hostile.
I know no amount of discussion will help with your self awareness. I’m sorry that we clash so much when having different views on a topic.
For what it’s worth, I told someone today that I thought it was crazy that Motordragon is in F tier on the tier list. They recommended I enforced the people’s vote, but I said no, I wouldn’t want KD to think it was personal or to feel attacked by me. I certainly have self awareness.
So thanks for that last attack.
Instead today, because my post replies were too short for your liking ( which was purely because I didn’t want to continue the hostility and arguing - just like in the past) and I made a single joke about the length you write, I got rudeness and hostility instead. and now someone trying to justify it. Can we just end it here please.