PvP restriction poll - how much are you affected?

First of all try to be a little less aggressive. Lemon was patiently giving you reasonable explanation on why he voted how he voted and why he thinks that this list could be a problem for players with smaller collections.

I wouldn’t use the term little guy, I would say that players who focused their spending on certain S Tier monsters to maximize their benefit from spending gems (only rational human behavior) get hit a bit too hard by this list because they are probably lacking options for a proper replacement. That this is true for quite a large group of people is proven by both polls and by the fact that a simple “buff all my bad monsters” thread gets over 20 likes. We have threads like this every weak several times and they usually get nowhere near this amount of support. So the list clearly changed something.

Personally I think the list itself is a good Idea, it just need a few tweaks. Link fire is a good example. Don’t limit things like meatoid or Ahui when Magma is the obvious problem. I get the idea behind it but it’s just not specific enough. Why limit 3 or 4 link fire monsters when you could just limit magma? This is a good example of how small collection players get hit hard because of a bad decision. Instead of limiting 2 monsters now 4 good fire monsters are limited while the real problem isn’t even on the list. The problem is everybody and their dad runs link fire or poison endgames. The main goal of a link fire endgame is to get magmas Sba off. So the easiest way would be to limit magma and another link fire monster like infernicorn. Like they did with stun when they put angel nova in 1 so they couldn’t be played together. Now people will just slam ashterios and astrogolem in their endgame and still play magma.

5 Likes

I’d like to add that it makes no sense to me how deathgazer isn’t on the restriction list. It was the most common endgame monster and the main reason poison endgames are so strong.

3 Likes

Yes, doesn’t make any sense.

Aside of that we need more legendary potions.

1 Like

I want to clarify something about this poll, that I said in the original post:
You are free to answer how you wish. If you feel you are being restricted and it’s making you unhappy then you can vote that you don’t have other options.

Please people don’t be judgemental of those who want to vote that way. I wrote this poll in a way to extract the most amount of data possible from the community and I’m gathering that in a note on my laptop.

That’s a huge leap to make from what you reference. Let’s wait until this poll has run it’s course before making any conclusions like that. The data I’ve gathered so far shows very much the opposite.

@TNCxXchaosxXf2p Please don’t make any more posts in this thread. Over the last 72 hours you’ve been extremely active in the forum and in this thread you’ve done almost half of the posts. By this point, believe me, we know your points and that you’re unhappy! Thanks for sharing your monster collection for my data gathering here but now you should take a rest.

@Tnc @RogerRoger @TNC_GOD_RA @Tomile @Sasori99 @K1NG_Deimos @TOG_Awadecoco @Dragon13 @WRO_Nyorainz @Doominmypants @TahsinV @Hiro @xTNCxGodxHerculeSx @Unholy_Prem @Lanz_Montage

Thanks for voting on the poll! Could you please tell me how many legendaries (in total) you own or share screenshots of your monster collection (mythics and legendaries)?

If you want to keep this private then please message me directly. I will not share the information with anyone.

@INA-Archer Thanks for listing the restricted monsters you own on both your accounts. However, could you also do the same as above?

The more data, the better. Thanks everyone

It’s not a huge leap it’s looking at the polls and making conclusions about how people feel. Also I think your approach doesn’t work/is contradictory.

Either your goal is to find out if people “feel” restricted by the limit list. Then it’s not of interest if they are objectively restricted (also who judges if someone is limited in his option for real or if the persons feeling is unjustified)

Or your goal is to find out whether people are objectively limited because of the limit list. Then you would need criteria for being “objectively limited” and the actual feeling of people wouldn’t matter.

In the end it would be possible to combine both approaches but then the problem would be again the criteria for being “objectively limited”. Lemons case is a good example: At first sight He’s obviously not really limited because his account gives him several good options for replacement. However he’s got a point when he explains how the limit list holds him back from playing a niche strategy he wants to play. That’s a good reason for the feeling to not have any other good options. So in order to properly judge if the feeling is justified you would have to take the explanations of the account owners into account aswell.

My approach is the first one. I only care about how people feel because in the end we play this game for enjoyment. Enjoyment is a very personal thing and if you don’t enjoy the game because of the list, you won’t suddenly start enjoying it again because someone tells you that your feeling is unjustified. Having studied political science qualitative methods of empirical social research was quite a big part of it, so I kind of know what I’m talking about. I probably should have explained it better/further but I disagree to your statement my conclusions would be a “huge leap” :slight_smile:

2 Likes

I have some secret KD.sorry

My approach is breaking it down person by person; figuring out the reality of their account situation, whether they feel restricted and whether they dislike the restriction system in general. I’m doing this by factoring in how they chose to reply to this poll, anything they share and everything they’re saying on the forum. Believe me, I’m doing the best I can to gather and properly use as much data as possible and draw valid conclusions. I’m taking into account inaccuracies in people’s voting as well as how people are trying to convey their opinions.

I wanted to be somewhat secretive about my methodology so it didn’t influence how people chose to respond/speak. However, I want you to trust what I’m trying to do. Also, because what you’re drawing conclusions from is something where a range of opinions have been lumped together.

I understand. However, for the benefit of data collection I’d love if you could private message me the information. I promise not to share it with anyone.

ok

I missed this. Why the hell are you making it so personal? All I try to do is help the community.

I don’t know who you are or why you have it in for me, but you don’t know anything about me.

What? Reading comprehension m8…
You did not try to help the community. You had a personal issues and tried to hide it behind some made up stuff about “the little guy”.

Aside of that, you actually had the only valid concern about the list with your niche rocklock concern.
You just chose the wrong angle to talk about it.

Wrong. One thread, talked about feelings about the thread overall. The other, asked about me personally. Therefore you had 2 answers.

Since VKC said the stats show the little guy is ok, I’ve changed my opinion. Yet you keep coming back.

Why is this such a big deal to you anyway? I genuinely like to help the community. Go on the team building thread and find me there.

Last time I’m saying this: Adjust your tone, be respectful.

1 Like

Yeah we’ve had too much arguing on this topic and going after each other. Let’s all try to stay away from it now

@Randolph be like

7 Likes

le magma? im shocked hes nt here too given the many link fire EGs

@RogerRoger @TNC_GOD_RA @Tomile @Sasori99 @TOG_Awadecoco @Dragon13 @Doominmypants @Sauron @TahsinV @Hiro @xTNCxGodxHerculeSx @Unholy_Prem @Lanz_Montage

Thanks again everyone for voting in the poll. I’m going to analyse the results in 24-48 hours so doing a last call on these tagged people. Please share screenshots of your collection or tell me how many legendaries you own (in total) in a private message or in a post on here.

The poll has been open for a week and we’ve had 66 voters so it’s time to do the analysis on it!

Nothing I write here is meant to make anyone feel bad about their opinion. Every opinion is valid feedback and this poll was just trying to figure out how many people thought each thing.

The intent of this poll was actually to:

  1. Figure out if the number of people badly affected by the restriction list, and whether they are a minority.
  2. Separate people’s feedback into groups, where I can then figure out what the biggest factors are that make people unhappy about the restriction list and whether they correlate to distinct sections of the community.
  3. See how representative the forum community is of the community as a whole (hero rank-wise).

The answer to that third point is easy… we quite clearly have very few low rank players compared to the number actually playing the game. Correlating the feedback I got and people’s posts on the forum it appears the lower rank players have a significantly higher percentage who are positive about the restriction list. Hence, this positivity is probably not properly reflected in our feedback on the forum.

Before I get to the numbers I have to say that when I spoke directly to lots of people it was surprising how many people had incorrectly answered the poll about the number of restricted legendaries they have. I think many were also counting their mythics and 0-5* monsters that were restricted but in some cases it wasn’t even this. In most cases they were miscounting by selecting they had more than they actually owned. Sorry if my poll was unclear and while the focus was on legendaries I did take into account people’s restricted mythics and SEs where relevant.

So here were the reasons that people were unhappy about the restricted list but were still able to make the same power level teams with their account:

  1. Restricted creativity for the teams they want to build (sometimes just distaste for this specific list that’s restricting them)
  2. Affects top spenders with many mythics less
  3. Wanting to use whatever they like, typically S+ spam
  4. Used most of the legendary potions on these restricted monsters

(1) was a complaint that came scattered across all level of players and seems to be closely tied to a general dislike for the restriction list system.
(2) was primarily from high level players and seemed to be a minority group of passionate people (most people just cared about how it affected them).
(3) is not to be confused with (1), this group were very much against the restriction list and seem to be a relatively minority group.
(4) was something that only came up from newer players / those with smaller collections. It appeared to be the primary concern for these people.

Here’s my altered results of the poll, taking into account all the extra data I was able to gather from talking to people…

No. of restricted legendaries Reaction Vote count Percentage of their restriction group Percentage of total
6+ Happy 22 61.1% 33.3%
6+ Unhappy 10 27.8% 15.2%
6+ Powered down 4 11.1% 6.1%
4-5 Happy 5 33.3% 7.6%
4-5 Unhappy 6 40% 9.1%
4-5 Powered down 4 26.7% 6.1%
0-3 Happy / unaffected 12 80% 18.2%
0-3 Unhappy 3 20% 4.5%

So a few things which are reasonably clear:

  • The 4-5 legendaries group is definitely the one having a harder time with the restriction list, both being powered down the most and being unhappy the most.

  • The number of people in the 4-5 group is higher than in the original poll - as I explained at the beginning a bunch of people were saying they had 6+ when they actually had 4-5. This accounted for a high proportion of those unhappy in the 6+ category.

  • The number of people in the 6+ group that are genuinely powered down is fairly low (11.1%). I was being very generous when categorising this and it simply seems to be the case that the majority (10/14) of people with large collections who are not happy with the restrictions to their team building have problems with some of the four things listed above the table (which is valid feedback).

Some bits which are not clear from the table, but were interesting points I found while data collecting:

  • A couple of the people with 6+ legendaries who were powered down were not overly bothered by it. The people who were passionately unhappy about being powered down were the ones with 4-5 restricted legendaries. I’m not quite sure what to take from this… that perhaps people with more high power, overused monsters are more understanding that they need to be restricted?

  • There were definitely some people who had specifically targeted top PvP monsters and managed to get them without picking up a lot of other good monsters along the way. However, they were a small minority.

Final conclusions

The data from this poll is not 100% accurate and should not be taken as such. I did my absolute best to work with what I had and account for unknowns to get the best information I could.

The vast majority of people care most about how the restriction list affects themselves. For a large percentage of the playerbase (not properly represented by the poll due to all our veterans here) this means they simply get the benefit of a more diverse PvP that changes every two months. For the competitive crowd and the veterans there are mixed feelings, with minority groups hating the list outright or how it disproportionately powers down some people versus top spenders. The larger unhappy groups here seem to be those who are being affected quite heavily and those who find the restrictions getting in the way of them building some teams.

The players which are most unhappy and most affected by restriction list appear to be those who are at the point where they have to give up a couple of the monsters (they own 4-5). Once players own more they typically have enough other options in their collection and feel less passionate about complaining too.

Suggestions for improvement @Dev_VKC:

  1. Purposefully try to un-restrict monsters that have been on the list, at least periodically. For example, if a monster has been (1) for four months in a row then it gets removed from the list completely for the next two months. Also, each time the (1) category monsters should be considered dropping to (2) for the next list rather than staying at (1). This is to address both people who are specifically targeted by the list because those are their best monsters and to let people simply have an opportunity to use them in a team without their creativity being penalised.

  2. Pick restricted mythics based on which of the awakened forms are most used, not second forms. This is so it’s properly targeting the top spenders, while the legendary restrictions target the other players.

  3. When a new restriction list is announced, grant everyone 3 legendary potions. I know that’s a big number, but it’s what we need for a TU reduction. This is will perfectly address the primary problem for newer players and hopefully avoid any “feels bad” for people putting potions into monsters that become restricted.

If anyone has other suggestions then be sure to write them!

11 Likes

I like the the ideas! The legendary potion increase is long overdue anyways.