Infact you are doing a great job, and I thank you for that KD
How long ago did the community suggest Jag?
I didnāt mean to offend you but putting Jag as S+ and Magmar, Cent & Infernicorn lower felt like something somebody would do that hasnāt been playing a lot of PvP recently. I have no idea if you are playing much or not! Thatās why I askedā¦
Iāve gotta say that keeping your finger on the pulse with PvP is essential. You really do need to play a lot in the current season to maintain an accurate list. Meta is changing a lot these days new monsters getting added all the time. What might look strong on paper isnāt necessarily strong with the current meta.
If you are gonna base your list primarily on suggestions the community is making I think the 3 I mentioned will be ranked higher than Jag. The community mentions them as OP fairly often. Donāt remember the last time the community spoke about Jag being OP.
Saitama for me as well Jag is S+ but I am not playing much.
According with the new meta stealth killer is an important ability and Jag is a stealth master, his moveset is powerful
Fair enough.
.
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@Killerdog how much is Thriviathan rated?
@Saitama
If you want to check out the history of a monster in this tier list search for its name in this thread (thereās a tick box for that). I entered Jaguardian as A+ and people immediately said it was more like S. Later on (after everyone got to see it properly) it was agreed that S+ was best. This was all back at the time you said Nulltron was B+ because youād just got it and didnāt like it plus were super surprised Onigeist wasnāt S+ after it had one season of fame after a single person used it in a powerful combo with Malwing and got 1st place on the leaderboard.
Ratings of monsters changes over time, depending on what proves to be better in PvP in the long run, but my opinion of Jaguardian hasnāt changed and in fact thereās been a rise in stealth since its release so tbh it should be doing better than it was.
I take the communityās opinion into account but ultimately I decide the tiers myself and under my own criteria. I believe this gives better consistency and if you think I have bias for/against certain things you can adjust how you read it accordingly.
With regards to doing lots of PvP being super important to judge how good things are I donāt think so. Both theory crafting and PvP experience have their part equally, each can highlight certain things. However, from reading some posts on Jaguardian I think itās worth mentioning that Mr.X (someone who plays PvP loads and whoās opinion you respect lots) was someone who felt strongly about Jaguardian deserving a top spot in the tier list. Then again, he also rated The Penguinator S+ at the time 
Bit of a difficult oneā¦ due to the lacklustre release and buffs in ways that are hard to value I have no idea what the communityās opinion is on it now. Theyāre probably all over the place. However, you can see Iāve put it high: S in general, A+ in PvP.
Itās got a lot going for it: decent speed, very high damage double sweeping, 70TU link stealth all, sleep immunity both for potential OoO synergy or as a counter with instant purify all (which additionally counters enemy stealth for double sweeping AND poison that might prohibit your stealth) and if you donāt use it in the front line it can potentially sweep from its first turn. It is reliant on link water for sure but when you can place it in a good team it is a sweeper that can also support the team nicely. Think Dracorosa but watered down and more combo friendly but link required.
It may be subject to dropping a tier, especially because I stupidly forgot double bloodcrave is no longer raw when doing the movements for the raw buff. However, a versatile sweeper such as this tends to perform well in a team that wants it.
I just wanted to point that double stealth attack can bypass protection tooā¦ This is a very big thing, for me is a S+ monster, I use him constantly.
But yes, is much reliant to link water team.
Glad to know you love him, fills me with a bit of faith in my rating of him! Actually reading over my update post I didnāt make the mistake with double bloodcrave, that mustāve been in a message to someone.
I use him in combo with Tardi Bloom and Kura.
Lol this was a year ago. That proves my point that Jags rating is a very old one. Itās outdated now. So many things have changed since thenā¦Not surprised Jag rating is off.
Also you know very well that I gave CrapTron an A to A+ rating a few weeks after that Nulltron Viascoā¦
I think that was also the time you said Nulltron was S+ but reduced it to S after using your brothers Nulltronā¦Not a single owner of Nulltron agreed it deserved S+ or even S back thenā¦Even Thaiger went on to reduce his rating.
Now before we getting sidetracked please note that the main reason I mentioned Jag was because you have him rated higher then some of the very best PvP monsters right nowā¦ Thatās my main issue. Those 3 I mentionedā¦
It would be stupid to not respect his opinion on PvPā¦Who doesnāt? I mean I would respect the opinion of anybody that is constantly ranked 1 in anything. Having said that Iām happy to strongly disagree with Mr X, or any other top PvP player when I think what they are saying is wrong. Just like how I recently disagreed with his view on Angelion and Novadrake.
But when top PvP players give an opinion on monsters Iām certainly listeningā¦
BTW I include you in the category of top PvP players. Even though I strongly disagree on these particular points and think itās critical to be playing regularly in the current season to have an accurate view on a monsters tier. Donāt worry, when you are giving an opinion, Iām listeningā¦Not always agreeing but definitely paying attentionā¦
End of the day Itās all opinion from you and me. These lists are still interesting and helpful regardlessā¦
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Even if it doesnāt have raw double bloodcrave the double sneak attack can still bypass, itās a very strong move
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This is tier lists in a nutshell, thereās no tier list everyone agrees on
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Itās always difficult to categorise something, when there is no criteria for the categories 
@Mr.X Nova was the sole reason I was able to get back into that game, which I was definitely losing at the time. Has that changed your opinion on it? I think itās a good monster all round and wonder if youāre a bit harsh on it.
the sole reason is you bypassed a protector to kill the stun absorb.
like i said any shocker at that time would had brought the game back.
Dont remember a protector being there who killed it?
there was the 5 cost protector that was just about to do give turn to bloom and you bypassed him just before his turn to kill bloom
Hmm. I donāt remember being lucky. Nova and Angel had raw moves and the protector would have been easy to kill. I donāt want to get in a disagreement about the match though. I just thought Nova got me out of a lot of trouble and wanted to use it as an example as to why I think itās not just a win harder monster
I still think penguinator is a S monster and definitely worth rolling for and playing him at end game.
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Agreed. People expect it to simply work all by itself. If you give it a small amount of support, thatās 4 kills right there.
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