And you assume that everyone got shiva + those two? Cuz even if someone HAS shiva, there are so much better combos out there.
his main purpose is to die for a death revenge while protecting others teamates. Therefore, he should have protector moves. No legendery should have a clone for the last spot (unreliable), so it needs clone next / bloodclone next (and as someone with an anoying revenge as him, maybe giving him a counter like auto poison is not a bad idea, so bloodclone or poison immue are not a must have).
And as i said, he needs a protector moves. Stealth teamate or purify sounds great, or even lifeflip friend
If he is going to support, then he will need a speed buff. He has one of the worst speeds in the game and his clones have half of that speed. He still wouldn’t be able to do anything.
I think I like this for him:
Speed to 60%
Change create duplicate to blood clone next
Change switch places to hp sharing
Change protect teammates for step back.
This way he could be a main legend and he could be a supporting legend with all the hold ground monsters around. It would guve him the versatility he needs.
It may be too much though. . .
HP sharing seems kind of random and pointless since he’s moving on to blood clone anyway, and it forces you to surround him with HG monsters for it to become usable. And I don’t think protect teammates should go, because forcing your opponent to trigger death revenge can be quite effective.
Think about this: When there are 8 nebelronixes in you team, it is really hard to not kill any of them. Even if you stunned 4 into oblivion, you would still have to kill 5 nebels tp get tp the rest pf your team.
Hp sharing allows nebel to support his team. It doesn’t force you to use HG monsters. It helps amplify them.
Currently the meta relies on setting up a sweeper and getting him so many extra turns so that it can eat half to most of a team before the opponent can react. What if we had a team in the meta that would rely on setting up something defensive, then trying to buy as much time as possible to use a win condition that wins by effectively forcing the opponent to play into your hands?
Since starting the game I always thought these two legendaries didn’t match up against the others. Every legendary should have a weakness (like these have auto-poison and poison revenge) but they need to have a moderately reliable way to help your team win.
The concept with these two is interesting… kill an enemy in retaliation when they die then to get more than one kill you must create 1HP duplicates. On top of that, you can force the opponent to attack it via protect teammates. Interesting, but in practice the monster must be slow (can’t have a duplicating death revenge monster with 90% speed) and once you’ve created a duplicate already so much time has passed your opponent can prepare for the “protect teammates” you’re about to use.
With a buff to these I think they need to hold true to the original design rather than removing protect or adding random things like healing effects. They are protect monsters, with an evil twist.
The way I would have it is like this:
add “auto protect” passive
create duplicate becomes create dual duplicate
protect teammates becomes stealth teammate
Auto protect being added so it means the opponent has the constant risk of attacking it if they attempt to target something else, i.e. they have less control over when they activate the death revenge right from the moment this monster comes into battle.
Create dual duplicate would make two copies of the monster, both at 1HP, at the end of your team. This will make it a real threat lurking at the end they will need to deal with but not overpowered because the monster (and its duplicates) are all slow on the draw.
Stealth teammate added to help with the assassination threat and otherwise add a little more support element to the monster while it is alive.
Zardecil was talking about how the meta is charge a sweeper then give turns to it to sweep half an opponent’s team before they can react. Well how about a death revenge doing dual duplicate that you follow with give turn -> switch places -> give turn -> dual duplicate -> heal rearguard. That would leave you with 4 death revenge monsters at the end of your team all in full health and 3 of them able to create more duplicates. That may not be the best strategy but it’s the kind of one these legendaries always should’ve had going for them.
Is protector killer/assassinate food. The latter of which is a positive material trade and charges bloodcrave/fury.
Is super slow. In order to create a duplicate you need 100 seconds. When you switch, it takes 100 seconds for the next nebelronix to get his turn. So each duplicate takes 200 seconds to make.
The duplicate is created at the end of the team. Even if you get 4 of them back there you can use an attack all to remove them all without triggering death revenge. Keep in mind that 4 duplicates would take you 800 seconds to make. Which is rediculous.
The duplicates are made at the end of your team. If you reach the end of your team then you are most likely losing. Due to the reason above, they aren’t going to turn the game around for you.
He paints a huge target on his head due to how he works. He will be killed before he gets a turn due to how slow he is.
The duplicates die in 0-1 hit(s). Poison gas, banedragon, autopoison, being looked at.
He is stunnable. He is as useful as a bronzeshell due to this fact. When he gets a turn he can’t do anything meaningful with it.
He is guaranteed only 1 kill. I can name 6 other monsters that are guaranteed 1 kill: Midasdragon, taloknight, apollorexus, Ultimadragon, Gaiawolf, Rhynobrawl, Puffoxin. All of these have way more utility then nebelronix does. Why use him when he is a 13 cost when you could use one of these?
There are a host of other problems that relate to opportunity cost, tempo, and material cost that I won’t go into because I haven’t been playing in pvp. So I haven’t had to focus on that for a while. So I don’t think I could do it justice.
His game impact is at the end. Where he can no longer make a difference.
Aurodragon is trash too. Not sure why you would use both him and nebelronix in a team.
Stealth teammate would create a conflict of interest. Why would you do that when you could be switching and creating duplicates?
Auto protect would make a monster that wants to be left alone have a forced target on his head. Not sure why you would give him that.
The strength of nebelronix is supposed to be forced disruption when you want it to disrupt. Giving it auto protect wouldn’t help amplify that. It would die before you want it to.
Autopoisoners are a backline now due to the fact that chromera is in the midgame most of the time. Nebelronix will still be a non-factor and useless.
I do agree though that nebel/cosmo have very intriguing design. I wish that I could use him without hurting my team.
The reason that I wanted blood clone next is because it solves a lot of his problems:
Autopoison can’t instantly kill the duplicates
Game impact is shifted from endgame to midgame(huge)
The slowness no longer holds him back. Each time you press the blood clone next button is a guaranteed kill. Right now pressing the create duplicate is a waste of time and is not a guaranteed kill.
4.He would actually have a reason to consider him over all the other legendaries with death revenge
5.Stunnable doesn’t matter when you have to kill the stunned thing anyway.
He still paints a huge target on his head and is assassinate/protector killer food. So he wouldn’t be OP.
The reason I used that heal rearguard / reincarnation monster in the example was purely because I thought of the heal rearguard move coming into play with this. I agree he’s one of the worst. In my opinion this monster needs an epic move given to him which makes him viable. Something like “Blood clone teammate” which uses 25% of max HP to create a duplicate of a teammate on the field and put it next in your line. The duplicate would come in with 25% max HP and the move could not be used on any monster which is a copy of another or has already been duplicated in some way. If used when current HP is below 25% then the monster would sacrifice itself.
So many monsters would benefit massively from having a copy of themselves out at the same time, I could see that move making the monster very good.
With regards to Nebel/Cosmo again… I’ve just had another thought. With all the other death revenge legendaries the idea is they are no real threat for a while. Talo / fire one have nothing but accelerate team and instant shield ally for the first 300s. The dragon has stun flash but again has to wait 300s for double survivor. The holy one has explosive quartet and give turn but is otherwise no big threat unless it charges bloodthirst.
The difference with Nebel/Cosmo is they are best swept straight away, so any buff should keep them working like that.
So here’s my new idea. First I was thinking about changing “create dual duplicate” from making two copies at the back to one at the front and one at the back. But then I remembered the Tenebris secret skill “shadow double”. Here’s what I now propose:
add secret skill “shadow double”
add passive “poison immune” or “stealthy entrance” (can’t decide which)
That simple. This way the monster can create two copies of itself, one being next in line with 25% health and the other at the back of the team with 1HP. Then it either has stealthy entrance to help with the monster getting off the duplication moves or poison immune to help the ones at the back from being cheesed.
In this case it would stay true to how it’s always been but has more focus around the duplicating. Your opponent will want to kill it as soon as it comes in so it either has poison immune in which case a poison team will struggle to kill it quickly or stealthy entrance where you can place it behind your starting line that has two protectors in it.
I suppose that would work if you made create duplicate cost only 50 seconds so that shadow double + create duplicate takes 100 seconds. That is something I could see myself using.
