If everything is Immune, per the definition above of “protected from the effects of something” why are stun absorbers still affected by stun when this is on the field if all monsters are “immune”. Stun absorbers, counters, and converters should be useless based on this definition. Stun counters and converters may be immune to the negative effect of stun but still are affected by stun in a positive way and are not “unaffected by the influence or of something” which is what immune means as they are positively affected by stun. Stun absorbers are not “immune” by default either as they are “not exempt from” the effects of stun as they have their tu increased when they are stunned which is the whole point of stun. Either change the move to work this way nullifying these 3 passives making everything truly “immune” or change the text to say, “all mons gain stun immunity that do not currently have a passive that either absorbs or counters stun”. This is false advertising as it is now.
Suggestion: make another passive called “insulator field +” only on the awakened version that works the way as I described above with the buff so everybody isn’t running around with this and you guys can earn more $ through it being worth it to awaken it.
I think it depends on the wording of the stun absorbers effects. If you look at Insulator Field, is says “all monsters on the battlefield are immune to stun”, but the Stun itself still happens. That is to say, the effect of the stun still applies to the monsters on the field, they are just immune to the actual effects of it. I would compare this to Shield, it prevents the next source of damage that would be dealt, but it doesnt mean the attempt to deal damage never happened, just the damage itself was prevented, that’s why Crescendo attacks still increase when used against a Shield because while the damage was prevented, the attack wasnt, so in this case the effects of stun is prevented, but not the act of it. You look at stun absorber it says “this monster absorbs all stun effects used against teammates.” Insulator Field does not prevent the stun from happening, it makes your monsters immune to it, so the stun is still used and from what I can read, the stun that would have happened to your team (which is immune to it) gets absorbed by the Stun Absorber, and the reason Insulator Field does not work at protecting the Stun Absorber is that that monster is not being affected by the enemies stun per say, its seconds are being increased due to Stun Absorber, not the effects of “Stun”.
The wording is pretty strange but from what I can read that makes sense to me. Vague, but it does make sense. Your Stun Absorber is being affected by passive ability “Stun Absorber” not a stunning type move that has a specific amount of seconds attached to it.
Insulator Field still says everything is “immune to stun”. Insulator field should just negate the effect of all stun period. As It is now, the passive “stun immune” says, this mon becomes immune to stun. In theory stun absorbers also would gain this stun immune passive on top of the absorb under insulator field because they are not already immune to stun. This would both make them immune to stun and also absorbing the act of stun which creates a dilemma, as something cannot be both immune and affected by something simultaneously.
This is a good chance for us to hear the feedback of community regarding this skill.
We wanted to have more combos which can be created with this skill, therefore, we made it in this way.
But I also understand your point. We have run stun immune (speical) pvp few times, so the stun immune effect is probably how some players interpret this skill.
In general, we like a skill able to create fun combos, meanwhile, making skill more intuitive and easy to understand for all range of the players is also the direction we are approaching.
Thus, we are open to make the skill better. Please feel free to share us with your opinions.
Last, thanks for the thread, squinty1880.
I’m on board with making everyone properly stun immune for sure. Overriding the stun countering passives really drives home the feeling that he has a total iron grip over the battle, quite like what Regalion and Deus X have going. Certainly worthy for a mythic. And yeah, converter and counter are so volatile that having something that can actually actively stop them in their tracks would be a good thing to have, particularly since time freeze refuses to.
Considering how overpowered Stun Converter/Counter is, I like the idea of buffing Insulator Field so that it keeps them in line. After all, it’s on a limited mythic so it’s not like it’ll run rampant and ruin everyone’s day.
Also, @squinty1880, please don’t think I was attempting to defend or be in support of this ability not affecting Stun Counter/Converter/Absorber. I was a judge for the Yugioh card game a few years back before PSCT (problem solving card text) was a thing, and the majority of issues we had to determine had to do with the specific ways effects were worded in order to properly judge how effects should resolve and in what order and why, so I was applying that logic to the text we have currently for these abilities in Neo Monsters in an attempt to help us all understand the “why” that Insulator Field does not affect Stun Counter/Converter/Absorber currently as that’s what seemed to be the topical question.
Again, I am completely in favor of modifying this ability to properly have an effect on all three abilities and fitting its surname, so I just wanted to clear that up, I was not defending it or rooting against you in this thread lol.
No I get you completely! Looking at the way stun absorber is worded this would make sense but the way insulator field is worded as it is creates a scenario that is unresolvable as of now.
I would definitely be in favor of insulator field acting like stun immune pvp, for second and final forms. It would be a great counter to the high teir teams that have lots of convertors, counters, and it would also allow Azra, Zib, flutter green, etc, to be used without fear of the stun revenge backfiring . I’m 100% for this change, it would definitely make him feel like the powerful mythic he’s supposed to be
I’m so confused why everyone wants Insulator Field to stop stun counters/converters from working? If you’re using Aethereon then why would you want to use stun yourself??
There is the one combo I know everyone wants: Aethereon + XYZ-999L.
Everyone wants this monsters to turn off XYZ’s passives so it’s easy to use with no downside.
However, I think a large part of Aethereon’s strength is combined with stun counters/converters then repeatedly “repulsing” an enemy with stunning entrance/revenge to get turns for your team.
Like with Regalion and other monsters that prohibit certain effects, you’re the one in charge of it and can build around it. Hence, with Aethereon you know not to put stun absorbers in your team and to put stun converters/counters around it for incredible stun protection (even if they kill those, you’re still protected until they kill Aethereon too).
I think for the upside of using monsters with stun absorber alongside Aethereon it’s not worth losing the combo potential. You shouldn’t really be using your own stun close to Aethereon in a team so enemy stun converter/counter monsters still getting turns shouldn’t be a factor.
Basically: I like how it is right now. I think the description should be changed to clearly say it doesn’t affect monsters with the passives stun absorber, stun converter and stun counter.
P.S. I know there are certain monsters which have stun passives you wish weren’t there. XYZ is an example, but there are others. However, I think for those we should have a different passive that reads “passives that deal stun do not get activated while this monster is on the field”. Insulator Field can stay for combos, as Aethereon can do with metempsychosis. This other passive can be on another monster to use with stun revenge monsters and protect your team from a lot of stun.
There is stun outside of passives. Right now there’s no reason not to run a null or galv with him, because If they have a absorber, they’re stunned for 200 tu on a field that’s suppose to be immune to stun. Also you bring up a good point on metempsychosis and stun counters/converters. That’s gonna be incredibly hard to overcome, if you have any type of stun in your team when they get set up. That’s basically Aethereon being able to TT for them over and over
You know after testing it more since I have it awakened, maybe it is fine the way that it is right now. I’m so on the fence about this, @Dev_VKC I think the ultimate solution is to leave it be for now and then come back and revisit it if the converter/counter meta becomes really prevalent in the future. @Killerdog brings up a valid point about the combos it creates with other mons as it is right now and I think the loss of that and the gain of the use of absorbers as a result of the change may actually make this mon worse. There is really no way to know. I think the solution is to have a week of special stun immune pvp again and have it work the way that is proposed here to see if that really would make things unbalanced if this were to happen.
. I’m 100% for this change, it would definitely make him feel like the powerful mythic he’s supposed to be