An idea for PvE poison scaling

Neo Monsters Neo Monsters General Discussions
1

Hey there!

Currently poison mons struggle a lot in the higher difficulty stages in the majority of PvE events (Island Challenge, Survival of the Fittest, Ultimate Challenge, Dungeon Challenge). This is an issue two-fold. For once, the variety of strategies is drastically reduced by taking poison out of the equation. Secondly, players who hatched mostly or even only legendary poison mons, as opposed to e.g. sleepers or death sentencers, struggle a lot harder in these events and all because of their egg hatch luck/badluck, which is understandably simply frustrating.

When thinking about scaling poison damage, however, a few things should be considered:

  • in early stages of PvE events poison is still great and just generally buffing the damage would make those sections completely trivial
  • the game is already hard to learn with 1000+ monsters and it should be avoided to make poisoners work completely different in PvE and PvP, as that would require people to remember two different versions per poison mon

So here’s my suggestion on how to tackle that:

For all PvE events poison damage abilities in the vein of Poison Eater and Poison Massacre should deal some enemy max. HP percentage-based damage _in addition to _regular damage. 

For example:

Poison Eater now deals it’s regular damage + 20% of targets max HP

Poison Massacre now deals it’s regular damage + 10% of targets max HP

This method wouldn’t change much about the earlier PvE stages where an additional 20% max HP damage doesn’t mean a lot when you already one-shot the enemy anyways. Meanwhile the more you transition towards the later, scaling levels, the more relevant this percentage based damage becomes.

What’s also nice about this is that you now got a place style that doesn’t resolve around sleep locking enemies, as that’s not possible with poisoned targets after all. Even if you keep 3 other mons sleep locked, at least the target that gets damaged cannot be held like that. Also mixing sleep + poisoners means you’re a bit slot starved and getting the right set up for this wouldn’t be too easy. In short, more gameplay variety which is undoubtedly a good thing.

This sort of mechanic also wouldn’t add too much complexity as these changes would apply globally to all PvE events. Arguably one could even add these changes to PvE so there’s no difference whatsoever. With some nice number tweaking (maybe reduce regular damage a bit when adding the HP percentage based one) the balance might just work out well, however, that’s another discussion. For now this idea focusing on PvE without any PvP balance in mind.

So yeh, let’s discuss. Please keep in mind that this is about the idea itself primarily, not the the actual damage numbers as those can be tweaked to whatever seems best.

2

Would be best to adjust so final outcome is same damage in PvP, and buffed for PvE. Else stuff like aegis and lava won’t live a poison eat anymore.

3

Poison is OK in PvE. The relative low damage of poison attacks is balance out by how easy it is to poison (auto poison,poison gas, storm) and continuous damage from being poison when compared to how difficult it is to sleep lock.

4

You forgot one thing:
If you dont stun or sleep the enemies in UC, they will kill you before you can blink once…
So it would not make any difference.

5

Of course it makes a difference but yes, high levels wouldn’t be just trivialized due to this change, which one wouldn’t want to happen anyways.

There’s lots to play around with stuns, give turners, hold-ground, healing, yadayada. If it turns out that say the 20% example for Poison Eater just doesn’t work out because getting off the 5 poison eaters required at a high level stage for a single kill isn’t just feasible then we can adjust those numbers. 25%, 30%, 40%? It should be possible to find something which makes the very best poison compositions to be somewhat comparable to the very best sleep compositions. And say, as long as the gatekeepers are doable, most players will be fine. Whether they can get indefinitely higher and climb to lvl 1000+ in UC, as appears to be the case with certain strats, isn’t as important.

6

It means poison shaking will be insane post 400++ lol

7

One thing is messing with poisoning cooldowns or chances of affecting targets and another thing is increasing its damage which is more than needed for PVE and for the small % amount you mentioned, it won’t affect the counterplay from the other types of skills and will not make poison eater or massacre overpowered.

I remember that my only legendaries on my 1st account were poison eaters. I made a poison team. What does it look like? Poison Massacre and Poison Eater were more like a 3rd damage overtime tick because they had no kill potential on higher level content. If poison is supposed to be damage overtime like that, then damage over time from poison deserved to be increased because poisoners on PVE are like sitting ducks waiting to get killed. But that would be OP for PVP right? Then your suggestion is perfect.

Another thing I would like to point out that we can’t just give our unfavorable opinions saying that it’s overpowered or not or whatever to everything people suggest without trying it 1st. Theory was never enough. There are a lot of good suggestions on this forum overlooked but all they needed was a tweak to fit into the game.

Poison Eater 1-shots on PVP already anyways.

Offtopic: I miss Island Challenge… I only had 1 chance to play it so far and I loved it

8

There are quite a few things that poison eat fails to one shot in PvP, which is why I said the damage calculations would have to be looked at carefully if tweaked. Regardless, it’s an interesting prospect to at least allow people with a stack of poison legends to make it towards the first gate keeper.

9

Hey there!

Currently poison mons struggle a lot in the higher difficulty stages in the majority of PvE events (Island Challenge, Survival of the Fittest, Ultimate Challenge, Dungeon Challenge). This is an issue two-fold. For once, the variety of strategies is drastically reduced by taking poison out of the equation. Secondly, players who hatched mostly or even only legendary poison mons, as opposed to e.g. sleepers or death sentencers, struggle a lot harder in these events and all because of their egg hatch luck/badluck, which is understandably simply frustrating.

When thinking about scaling poison damage, however, a few things should be considered:

  • in early stages of PvE events poison is still great and just generally buffing the damage would make those sections completely trivial
  • the game is already hard to learn with 1000+ monsters and it should be avoided to make poisoners work completely different in PvE and PvP, as that would require people to remember two different versions per poison mon
    So here’s my suggestion on how to tackle that:
    For all PvE events poison damage abilities in the vein of Poison Eater and Poison Massacre should deal some enemy max. HP percentage-based damage in addition to regular damage.

For example:
Poison Eater now deals it’s regular damage + 20% of targets max HP
Poison Massacre now deals it’s regular damage + 10% of targets max HP

This method wouldn’t change much about the earlier PvE stages where an additional 20% max HP damage doesn’t mean a lot when you already one-shot the enemy anyways. Meanwhile the more you transition towards the later, scaling levels, the more relevant this percentage based damage becomes.

What’s also nice about this is that you now got a place style that doesn’t resolve around sleep locking enemies, as that’s not possible with poisoned targets after all. Even if you keep 3 other mons sleep locked, at least the target that gets damaged cannot be held like that. Also mixing sleep + poisoners means you’re a bit slot starved and getting the right set up for this wouldn’t be too easy. In short, more gameplay variety which is undoubtedly a good thing.

This sort of mechanic also wouldn’t add too much complexity as these changes would apply globally to all PvE events. Arguably one could even add these changes to PvE so there’s no difference whatsoever. With some nice number tweaking (maybe reduce regular damage a bit when adding the HP percentage based one) the balance might just work out well, however, that’s another discussion. For now this idea focusing on PvE without any PvP balance in mind.

So yeh, let’s discuss. Please keep in mind that this is about the idea itself primarily, not the the actual damage numbers as those can be tweaked to whatever seems best.

‘Players who only hatched poison legendarie and 0 sleep’ , man seems you are talking about guys like me 3 poison legendaries 0 sleep legendary xD

OK now coming at the point, being able to use stun + poison legendaries and even reaching around level 400 sounds like a good idea. But I do agree with not boosting its damage in PvP , as they already are very good in PvP and boosting would mean that even monsters like aegis, mecha, lava won’t even survive a massacre by even a SE let alone The Mighty Terror! I think just like there is a overtime poison debuff in PvP(I once activated in gallio vs gallio) there should be a damage booster for poison monsters at least in Ultimate Challenge (if not in any other PvE events)I think everyone deserves a fighting chance and not only sleep and death revenge/sentence. Let’s see what others have to say.

10

:doughnut::chocolate_bar::lollipop::icecream::custard::birthday::shaved_ice::ice_cream::cookie: take all of that, you said exactly what i was thinking :ok_hand:t2:

11

We aren’t trying to buff poison damage. We are trying to alter the mechanics of poison dependent moves themselves. The damage is to remain the same in PvP, but change in PvE. We want a single damage model to be able to do that.

12

His suggestion if perfect and almost flawless. For starters:

Poison eater: 30% of the target maximum HP + 70% of the current PE dmg

Poison Massacre: 50% of the target current HP + 50% of the current PM dmg

Test and tweak. GG ez

If you have a better solution please say it, don’t be shy.

13

That was delicious, thanks :smiley:

OK mate, Regardless of how you do it, any improvement is welcomed :slight_smile: