You can use midas TT with another TT on the field

Neo Monsters Neo Monsters General Discussions
21

Here’s my case for Sol that I’ve made partially over a few posts. At the core, us Sol users wanted a speed buff or TU reduction. Perhaps a swift fast strike SS or something like that.

Instead we got a SS that’s reliant on another legendary. We did not get a speed buff. Sure, we got a quicker blood move but a blood move that’s going to kill Sol in 2 moves at best. Sols bloodthirst made him a viable sweeper for hordes or dungeon where you have to keep your sweepers alive. Bloodcrave isn’t a very viable strategy for those events.

TL;DR we wanted something else for Sol. This just made him die faster.

22

I’ve always been a big fan of Sol and got it when it first released. I agree that a SS of swift fast strike would have been great, but the main problem was that it had no quick sweeping move (which appeared to be the original design). Faststrike became much weaker after the damage got nerfed which means getting kills isn’t so easy and you need two before bloodthirst could be used. 160TU faststrike + time for lining it up, twice, before you could bloodthirst was terrible. By changing this to bloodcrave we now have a way to sweep at 80TU after just one kill, which is far far better in the PvP scene and when you’re balancing this legendary with others. In PvE I’ll admit that bloodcrave is not the best move because the recoil will be big, but Solblaze doesn’t exactly survive very well easily because it’s weak to sleep killer and has low defence with no HG. It’s not your typical kind of bloodthirst sweeper, it’s meant to be more like one which causes some mayhem with quick kills then has to be killed off by your opponent and they take the sleep revenge. Therefore, I’d argue it’s not designed for the likes of GoH and definitely not for DC!

In the buffs thread when Sol was discussed I think I said why it shouldn’t get a speed buff. It’s got faststrike, which means it can’t have any more than about 40% speed because faststrike can kill anything one shot if they don’t have hold ground. Let’s imagine it has 60% speed then in the front line it could instantly kill any of the 40-60% speed monsters people like to use in their FL. That’s overpowered, because of the way the game is designed. Therefore, it wasn’t going to get a speed buff so the options were either to speed up the moveset (as they did) or add an awesome SS like swift faststrike. What they did is speed up the moveset and add a SS which has the potential to be amazing with another monster. That’s exactly what we could have hoped for.

There’s no way to change a moveset without some kind of loss. Solblaze lost bloodthirst but gained a faster (TU) sweeping move that can get charged earlier. It better fits the design in my opinion and makes the monster more viable when compared to other legendaries. If you want a solid bloodthirster then look to Chronozeros or one of the many other legendaries with bloodthirst who are far better set up for it than Solblaze was.

23

Thanks for the always thoughtful and well said response, KD. I had not thought of the fact that a high speed fast striker would be so OP (I certainly wouldn’t mind it, tho).

I agree blood crave is more useful for PvP than thirst. But since PvE is such a huge part of this game I’m pretty bummed one of my few legends was nerfed for that part of the game.

I would have preferred it stay the same with swift fast strike or slayer bane SS. That would have been a more reasonable buff for both meta. Especially since most people relying on Sol probably don’t have enough legends to have Luna, statistically speaking.

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Exactly those who have solblze now have to have luna to be good and the chance of hatching it in rare are 1% approx.unless devs guramtee that the next egg we hatch gives us luna they should eiylther change his ss or remove dependence on luna.also a passive such as thick skin or something that negates or reduces recoil damage would be nice on him to lessen bloodcrave damage in pve and I think giving it a ss like 400 sec supernova that kills all monsters on battlefield including alloes and heals sol would be nice. Thoughts???

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No. He is fine. He isn’t bad. Stop labeling him as such.

You want lunar? Save 300 gems and be patient.

26

Lol. Zard, for real, we probably aren’t gonna get Luna even with 300 gems. I would rather they put Sol back like before.

Implicit in my previous posts is that if anyone has these 2 mons, Sol probably does not end up in their most used rosters anyway because they probably have a lot of more useful mons. Sol is a mon that only those of us lucky enough to actually get a leg out of the 40%(20%) rare egg and unlucky enough to have that mon be Sol actually use.

We wanted a buff, but we wanted a buff that made him good for everyone who had him. Not one that makes him extra useful only to those who already probably have 50+ legends.

I agree with KD that this was probably a buff for PvP, but I contend it was a nerf for PvE. For people with fewer legends (those I argue most likely to rely on Sol) PvE is more important, therefore nerfing him for those who needed him most. Keeping the previous move set and adding a swift bane/killer SS would have charged his blood thirst faster and made him useful to everyone that has him. Not just those who already have so many legends they probably won’t use him anyway.

And I’ll again say, RNG must hate me because his sleep revenge rarely puts out more than 1 enemy and that enemy is rarely the sweeper, and or is immediately purified or canibalized thus canceling out the sleep revenge. So I would rather stun revenge, death revenge, shield entrance or hold ground for a passive.

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I said be patient. All devs have to do is release eggs with just lunar and just solar every once in a while as the guaranteed 6th. No issues.

And he is good. 80 second sweeping ability off of 1 kill, gaining control over the match if he dies. Still don’t think he needs a further buff.

If he gets low just go back to using faststrike. Then he is still a threat and he enemy will have issues killing him. The threat of his passive is what is insane about him.

1/8 chance for it to hit nothing, 1/8 for everything. It gives you varying amounts of control over the match. If you have he skill, then that alone can mean you win.

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With my luck I’ll still roll Luna lol.

I don’t think needs further buff. I would like a different buff. A universally useful buff. Very few mons in this game require another legendary to activate their best ability. To my knowledge (and I’m ready to admit I’m wrong) it’s the SE dogs and Sprigollo. And Those 3 get amazing OP moves with their yin/yang.

80 second sweeping ability if you have used 70 seconds on accelerate and if you haven’t taken a hit. And then sweeping for 2-3 more turns, unless you’ve taken a hit in which case it’s 2 at most. Again, the revenge must be storing some serious 100% sleep odds for me because so far it’s been minimal and certainly given me no control over a match.

I agree fast strike is great though.

I wanted a SS that could be used in any condition. And one that was a definitive advantage as most others are. I’m thinking swift slayrrbane, swift protector killer, etc.

Lastly, do you use Sol as a first choice in your teams?

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Os so hpw about sleep revenge putting all enemies on battlefield to sleep like sleepbomb and yes sol is bad no matter waht u top players say about him without lunartic u are thinking from ur point of view and pvp but what about new players what about those who dont do pvp but pve sol was good sweeper before perfect for pve and ok in pve now it may be excellent in pvp but not in pve and since I have been using him his sleep revenge has never hit more than one enemy. Iagree with boiler all the points he has raised are legit you may have both of them but try to think from pov of someone who just hatched him and doesn’t have lunar we dont want a game breaking biff jist something about the ss before update he was good now he isnt you can think he is good I can think he isn’t.

30

That’s a terrible idea I could just zib eat sun instant sleep all no risk

At the moment sun is a lot better you don’t need to unlock his ss unless you have moon, he can get kills faster or just be a sleep revenge.
sun is better in pvp and same in pve don’t see how that is a bad thing.
Also for me no I don’t use sol as first choice mainly cause I have a lot more options and find rng cheap but to someone making a pve team that needs a sleep revenge it’s perfect or a maybe a sweeper in pvp it’s perfect again not the best but still useable

31

I was saying the odds must owe me 100% sleep because sleep revenge has been almost useless for me so far. It’s 40% has been about as good as the rare gem 40% :rofl:.

That said, Lochi I’m not disparaging his new SS. No doubt it’s an OP SS. My point is the liklihood that anyone who has collected both Luna and Sol using both Luna and Sol are minimal, you’re answer further validates that assumption. People with lots of legs dont use Sol and Luna. If they have rolled the 13 trillion times necessary to have both, then theyre probably playing with leo, gold, delug, etc as their sweeper. This SS is a stupid SS because it’s most likely not useful to Sols biggest user base- less experienced or newer players for whom Sol is one of their few legendaries.

For PvP thirst to crave may be a buff. For PvE it’s a nerf and I again argue that those of us relying on Sol value PvE more than PvP because we can hope for little more than 20 wins to Omegamid in PvP anyway. PvE helps us advance our game from a materials perspective far better, and this is a nerf to that aspect of our game

32

I don’t see how crave is a nerf for sol in pve
Never heard of someone using sol as a pve sweeper
Sol before hand was terrible a se had better use for the same effect

33

That’s 56 seconds, as the move accelerate is actually accelerated by the move itself.

I don’t have sol, but if I did, I would definitely use him as a very annoying sweeper in a control based team. Wish I had him tbh.

34

His only problem now is his slow entrence speed. I just dont like to use these kind of monsters, but if he was faster i would use him in a heartbit. But i will try setting it up, see if it worth the trouble, cuz they both got great movesets

35

Okay, so say I hatch him. Here are the first things that go through my head:

“Oh cool, a new toy to play with. Glad I got him!”

“Alright, so his moveset is based around being as annoying as possible. How do I use this to my advantage?”

“Strengths are fast sweeping, and a very punishing revenge. If I can use the revenge to it’s fullest effect, then the team with him in it will be pretty solid. What are some monsters that can take advantage, and what monsters does he like?”

“Well, given his drawbacks, I would say while he likes healing, it isn’t entirely necessary. As his dying is very helpful as well.”

“So what we do now is we build a team where I try to get control of the match, and have him either draw fire, or sweep out the enemy team. Either way, I can end up ahead. So what is the most efficient way to take advantage of this property?”

“Sleep monsters seem like they could be good. However, sleep makes the team semi-reliant on his revenge. We don’t want to rely on it, instead making use of it when it does happen.”

“What about regalion? My regalion can turn the game into a 3v3. This makes it tougher for the enemy to both get rid of the solblaze, and solblaze if it does die can get me even further control over the match. So we will combine the two together. We also need stun protection, so we can put in armavolt for that purpose. Lastly, we need 1 more monster to help with match control.”

“Oh right, shadowhunter can help do so. Given a bit of luck, we can turn the game into a 2v3 or even a 1 or 0v3, with me getting the upper hand of the exchange, and me being able to get a material advantage.”

“Alright, so here is my group of monsters. How do I go about putting them in order, and do I need any spacing for them?”

Etc. . .

Now, I would continue on in order to make a frontline to lead into this, and an endgame that would be powerful as well. But the point here is, he is a different kind of monster. One that most new players will have 0 idea how to use right. Just because you can’t use him right or make a team using him doesn’t mean he needs a buff. He is not bad in the slightest. Stop labeling him as such.

I will say I am F2P, and I DON’T have lunartic, and I still think he is fine, and that people need to learn to play better.

36

Well said

37

Thanks Zardecil for the good post, always nice to get insight into your mind :wink:

I agree that Solblaze was generally made slightly worse for PvE, but only if you were using him as a bloodthirster. This was never his original design nor was he as good as many other, easily available, bloodthirsters. Therefore, I see no downside to his changes.

The changes that happened to Solblaze took it closer to how it should’ve always been designed. It’s a solid monster with quick sweeping potential and relatively easy setup then a brilliant revenge which also opens up more combo options. Its weakness is that it takes a bit of time before it gets sweeping (without GT around) and so the opponent can ignore it for a bit but will ultimately need to take the sleep revenge which can be very punishing.

It’s a solid monster without the SS, just like Lunartic is. The secret skills they’ve had added are just a bit of fun as a cool combo which people may choose to utilise. So many of the newer monsters heavily rely on their SS as part of their overall moveset. It’s great for Sol and Luna to have SS which can be ignored if you are using them for other things.

I know I can’t shut everyone down here but have we not discussed Sol enough already?

38

Trust me, you would. If you were around during the early days of chronozeros then you would realise why. 80 speed fastrike is not healthy for the meta in any way shape or form

39

Maybe devs should do TBT and introduce Chrono at it’s old speed to people to try

I am sure everyone will agree it belong to 20ish speed range

40

And for the ones complaining about gazer being weak, remove his restriction again :smiley: