What zard wants in balance next patch.

Okay so I’ve got a few balance/monster usability things I wanted to bring to @Dev_VKC’s, @Dev_BRD’s attention.

Note that a plan these posts a lot in advance, so recent developments that aren’t straight up updates to the game don’t change them.

First topic:

The Godfeather/Dragaia:
These two legendaries used to be highly sought after. They were the pinnacle of “Thing to get” in order to help with pretty much any event. As a result they were removed from the regular egg, removed from the first egg, and moved exclusively to the rare egg. The Godfeather since then has been featured a total of once, and no one hatches a Dragaia anymore. When you get these, they are pretty meh, and nobody uses them anymore. Especially when compared to the like of Delugazar.

Why aren’t they used so much anymore? Because they are nearly impossible to set up. Firstly, they want to be alive and ready to go when they are the last monster left. They have the following moveset:

Assisted thunder/Quake(all)
Life Flip Self.
Last bite(Basically the whole legendary right here.)

Hold Ground
Stun Immune

As you can see, the monster when it can get a turn can either:
a: skip
b: life flip
c: assisted quake/thunder

The second two are the worst options in the game when your biter is at full HP. If you use assisted quake/thunder then you will never use a second move afterwards because the enemy will kill your biter(whether AI or a pvp opponent) due to the inherent fact that it can and will have a MASSIVE target on it’s head. The second one is self explanatory.

Skipping in PvE is fine, but in pvp it’s not working. That, and the AI has wizened up to the last biter, meaning that it will kill it once it enters the field. As a result, it’s not going to almost ever have the chance to actually use last bite. That, and the fact that there are sooo many things that pierce hold ground right now that even if you do manage to set up last bite, it’s not the payoff that it used to be. It will not give you a reasonable last shot of winning the game.

As a result, we can see that there are the following issues:

  1. Doesn’t set self up.
  2. Has high TU moves that it doesn’t want to use, or a move that gets itself killed.
  3. The payoff for setting the monster up is pretty small.

To combat these three things I would like to propose the following changes:

  1. Get rid of assisted quake/thunder(it’s not being used, it’s not helpful anymore, monsters aren’t being touched.) Then replace it with backstab. This way the monster can indeed set itself up.
  2. Make last bite have excessive force. This way when you do set up the monster(or have it set itself up) it will be a force to be reckoned with.

These two changes to the both of these monsters will make them useable and useful for both pvp and in online pvp play as well. I hope you will consider them.

Alright, on to next topic:

Scorpionyx(second form of the mythic onyxia):
I will be completely honest when I say that I wish I didn’t have to post this as one of those weak problem monsters. But it’s just that. A weak problem monster. Note that it’s final form Onyxia is very powerful and should be left as alone as possible.

First thing about this monster that sticks out is it’s giant scorpion tail. . . also known as fatal sting.

  • Fatal sting: This skill hits 1 enemy. It deals damage and poisons the monster. Enemies hit by this skill will die after 200 seconds, even if the user leaves the battlefeild , unless they are purified before then.

At first this looks like a perfectly reasonable move. It probably is until we look at the rest of this monster’s moveset:

  • Assisted blight
  • Raw Bloodthirst
  • ELEM healing
  • Passive: Sleep immunity
  • Passive: Stun converter

So when we look at the rest of it’s moveset comes out. It appears that whenever it gets a turn, it really doesn’t do much. It can heal a shadow monster, hit something, use fatal sting, or use the Raw move(which has to charge for ages). This is it’s list of options upon converting stun. None of these actually effect the game board. Fatal sting might eventually effect the board, but it will not effect it right away. Herein lies the problem with scorpionyx. It needs time to be set up, but the resources given to it will prevent the setup from going off in the first place. With onyxia this is fine, due to the fact that it’s supporting the team with stun counter. However with scorpionyx, raw bloodthirst takes ages to set up(330 seconds),when it finally is set up it can’t do anything(due to raw, and the fact that anyone wishing to live for 330 seconds needs a protector.) and during that time it doesn’t do anything for your team. It also dies to a chrono killer.

Onyxia has none of these problems because it’s supporting your team while to does stuff. Unfortunately though, scorpionyx does nothing, and takes ages to be set up. As it stands, you need to basically have the monster awakened for it to do anything other than sit on your bench, which isn’t okay for something that is above legendary rarity.

So with these issues come changes right? So here is what I propose(1 of these, maybe 2):

  1. Remove raw. This would solve all the issues for scorpionyx because then protectors and one on one could actually set him up in a meaningful way. As it stands, they’re not doing anything. However, I can see this causing problems with onyxia. So this is a change you might have to balance the upgraded mythic for.
  2. Replace elemental healing. This spell does nothing for what the monster wants to do. It wants to live, it wants no protectors, and it wants to kill things. Why is this on the monster? Maybe makes sense for onyxia, but 160 second low impact move does nothing for scorpionyx. Especially when all it’s time should be spent on fatal sting. I don’t even know what with(comments pls).
  3. Just upgrade the raw bloodthirst to raw bloodfury. This is simple, it makes the monster usable, it’s what it needs. That way it has some sort of payoff for fatal sting.

Please devs, look over this iteration of the monster again. I have tried really, really, reeeaaaally hard to get it to work. It’s not working. It doesn’t do anything. It’s a bronzeshell with stun converter.

Alright last monster:

Okay, so this is more a I feel there is a bit of dysfunction in the second form. Firstly, I like the design space of the monster. Either it does one thing really well, or it does another thing really well. This is created by the move iron wall, which is a protect focus without the protect.

This allows XY-450M to theoretically be 2 monsters in and of itself. It can be a monster that sits there and acts like a brick while supporting your team, or it can be an offensively based monster that sweeps while it disrupts the enemy’s options with ion field. Note that there is just 1 wrench that is thrown in here.

The wrench:

  • While the monster is theoretically supposed to be 2 monsters, it’s really more like 1 and a half. This is due to the fact that the second one of his forms literally has moves locked. This means that the defensive support version of the monster is locked behind the awaken wall, which incredibly difficult to overcome. As a result, iron wall as an option is locked(due to the payoff of ion field not being nearly enough to warrant using iron wall and shutting off the option of double survivor), and evolving the monster from X-100S to XY-450M is literally doing nearly nothing. It’s adding a single additional target to survivor at an addition 5 cost to your team.

(As a result I will not be evolving my X-100S at all until I have 3 more of the monster.)
Remedy to the wrench(anti-wrench lubricant):

  • Let him have his second passive already. There are 2 massive upgrades already when you awaken him, so let him have his stun absorb when he evolves for the first time. It completes the design in the second form. Stun absorb makes the addition 5 cost that you add to the monster when evolving it for the first time worth doing. Give XY-450M His second passive.

Given that we have been promised stuff for drax, I don’t think that I need to talk about him much. I will say though that I would like to see him have his design completed in the second form, in the second passive being given to him, and the new one being one that can be upgraded when it goes from second form to awakened form, such that the jump in power is as big as the other mythics.

Anyway, that concludes my thoughts. Tell me what you think.

1 Like

A solid analysis if I say so, though I feel there should be a quick mention about Terragoul, and why it has Elemental healing, given that it was designed to be a sweeper that scores quick kills at the cost of a Rockoid.

You should post this on the thread that I made, this is a same topic after all

Give Godfeather and Dragaia purify instead of life flip. :wink:


I like to separate my balance suggestions so they don’t get buried.

Let last bite be usable but doesnt deal critical damage if its not alone.


That’s a pretty good idea

Last bite + excessive force? Sounds good to me

When is the patch coming?

What i really wanna see buffed are SEs im tired of full teams of legends dont you?
Apart from absorvers and AP we dont see any other SEs
Btw you missed the MIGHTY Mistletorment iff a mythic deserves a buff its definitly him


Ye, a really good super epic would be nice too !!

I was excited to read through this post but it mostly looks like an appeal to get mythic monsters 2nd form upgraded, before we even know how accessible 7* tickets are and whether we can reasonably awaken them. A few weeks ago people were moaning about how rare mythics are in the eggs, they thought it was ridiculous. Now it’s obvious that people are getting them and suddenly they want them buffed in the 2nd form so they can use them, rather than looking at their calendars and seeing that it’s been only 1 month… we will awaken them over time and it’s only when they’re awakened that we truly have the monster properly.

Zardecil, you were one of the strongest voices on how you liked the way mythics are monsters we get over a longer period of time. I understand what you’re saying about making the 2nd form usable but I’m surprised that in this thread you’re asking the 2nd form to become as strong as the 3rd form.

In my opinion:

  • Scorpionyx (Onyxia 2nd form) has a nice looking moveset but turns out is a bit weak because raw bloodthirst is too awkward to charge. I reckon it should have stun converter removed and bloodthirst -> bloodfury. Then it can work as a sweeper but stun counter is the incredible buff when awakened. Raw is totally fine on this monster and is very important once it is awakened so has stun counter. Stun counter behind a protector is a nightmare!

  • XY-450M (XYZ-999L 2nd form) is totally fine. It has most of the moveset and can be used effectively as a double survivor monster, especially because it has aggressive stats. It’s basically a weak legendary until you evolve it.

  • Drakion (Dragulus 2nd form) is also totally fine. I’m amazed that Zardecil has asked for this monster to have the complete moveset in 2nd form because with excessive force is basically doesn’t need the larger stats from awakening. I hope this monster continues to miss a similar part of the moveset when it gets updated so there is good reason to awaken it. Currently it’s one of the biggest candidates for not awakening.

I expect the reason why Terragoul (Na’turgoul 2nd form) is not mentioned here is because Zardecil hasn’t spoken with many who have it. In 2nd form this monster relies totally on having the team to create rockoids for it and it’s not particularly strong anyway. I hope that the monster gets buffed so it has:
Ancient rule adds 4-6 rockoids when this monster enters the field AND 2nd form loses ELEM healing (so awakening is more beneficial after the change to ancient rule).

I like the ideas for The Godfeather/Dragaia. Excessive force for last bite sounds like a really good way to give them power again. The only thing I would say is make Backstab 80TU, so that they’re not super fast at removing teammates or able to work like Geomagnus to protect your team from stun / set up 4-monster line-ups quite so well.

To summarise:

  • The Godfeather / Dragaia: Change assisted hit all to Backstab 80TU, give Last Bite excessive force (as Zardecil suggested).
  • Scorpionyx: Change raw bloodthirst into Raw Bloodfury but remove Stun Converter.
  • XY-450M: No changes needed.
  • Drakion: No changes needed, make sure when update comes that it has a good reason to be awakened.
  • Terragoul: Buff Ancient Rule so it adds 4-6 rockoids when the monster enters the field. Remove ELEM Healing from the 2nd form, Terragoul.



I agree on terra. It’s either in throw team or it can’t be used (2nd form)

Also doesn’t zard have the other 3? I’m guessing that’s why this thread was made

1 Like

You heard from VKC right? 7* tickets don’t actually do anything right now, and devs are still trying to find functionality for them.

Also Everyone, this is not an end all be all thread of changes. These are some of he changes I would personally like to see.

Just because I didn’t talk about mistletorment doesn’t mean he should get a buff.

Secondly, It’s not about making them as powerful as the awakened forms. It’s about making them have their full design available to them, and have the awaken button make that functionality much more powerful.

You read my post right? There is no reason to evolve x-100s to xy-450M right now as what it gets is not worth 5 extra cost. At least you can read the whole post before you dismiss it.

Going from XY-450M to XYZ-999L still gets MASSIVE buffs when awakening it. You’re aware of this right? Making the monster have functionality in it’s second form is not making it anywhere near it’s awakened form’s power(which is to say, nearly busted).

Also I wrote this post before I ever got X-100s guys. Was a stroke of luck. My ownership of the monster has nothing to do with what I was going to post in this case.

I don’t have time to think through every monster, so I don’t. I’ll think about 1-4 at a time and then come up with a post about it. Last time was regalion.

Sorry Zard, you seemed to take a bit of offence to my post like I was dismissing what you said. I read your post through in full and if I didn’t pay respect to certain parts I’m sorry that didn’t come across.

I know you weren’t mentioning every single thing, like Mistletorment probably needs some tweaking (as discussed lots already). Also, the bit about there not being much added from X-100S -> XY-450M I didn’t mention because in order to have the stats for double survivor to do good damage and the health (which you need because of the recoil) the monster must be fully trained and evolved. While the moveset might look good on the first form, it’s not usable at that stage. In the second form it’s a weaker legendary, like many of the mythics are.

As for your comment about mythics having their “full design available to them” in their second form I disagree strongly. If you give them their full design then you’re bound to have lots which are not worth awakening. The Devs specifically leave out key parts of the movesets on SEs and Legendaries so that you have to evolve them to use the monster properly. Where they don’t do this, it’s often the case you can use the monster in its earlier form to save on team cost (which is not a good thing). Mythics are a little different because they are so hard to awaken. I agree they should be usable in their 2nd form, but they should only have a percentage of the final design so it is always an obvious choice to awaken them. If they’re a weak-ish legendary in their second form with a few particular mythics standing out as strong legendaries then that sits well with me… and that’s how it looks for the most part right now. The mythic monsters are not complete until we awaken them and that is done over a long period of time, which is something we’re not used to but I think is a good new thing for them game (as I believe you were saying a couple of weeks ago).

I know the news about 7* tickets not yet being possible to use has made people worry about how we will awaken mythics. However, it has still been only 1 month since their initial release and we haven’t had any concrete info so we can’t say for certain how hard mythics will be to awaken. One thing people mentioned before is how the Devs said they were planning to bring out a couple of new events soon and maybe one of these will be something that helps us awaken the mythics we have.

If they’re a weaker version of a legendary then why should I want one over another legendary? Would end up feeling terrible that I got the first one of a mythic as it’s yet another road to complete.

Also that phrase in itself is inconsistent, as then we have stuff like voidress where it literally follows this philosophy of “full functionality full power later”. Where it goes from ultralux to power slash. If it went from “half functionality to full later” it wouldn’t have camouflage, or it would have bloodthirst still.

I think the other mythics should follow same philosophy voidress does, or void should be nerfed to follow what you think.

I’ll finish training my X-100S and get back to you on that. My prediction is that that evolution will only effect a few key interactions, and it will be fine(it will act like a searguard only thunder type). As such you still have to apply your logic for first form to second form. Has to be worth awakening sure, but it also has to be worth evolving in the first place.

1 Like

Okay finished training it. Stats:

Searguard for comparison:

Given the speed I’m completely okay with using it as a searguard with ion field and survivor instead of bloodcrave and roaring entrance. This is at a 3 cost discount! So really needs the additional functionality in second form to make it worthwhile.

Drakion is fine REally that has to Be the dumbest post I’ve ever seen it is the worst myth/legend I’ve ever scene it’s fully unusable even awakened it has nothing unique about it very bad moveset and restrict raw thirst on top it fits in no teams at all heck I would rank it z you better off running moji in itsplace