TU Move Requirement Discussion

Neo Monsters Neo Monsters General Discussions
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Hey everyone -

Now that PVP is over, I’ve been experimenting with new teams using monsters I don’t typically use in my PVP teams. I’ve been running into an issue while trying out new teams that I’d like to share. Sorry for the length of this post - just bear with me.

Say we wanted to add Burnsalot to our team. In order to use his SS, it must be at least 50 secs since his first turn. Looking at his skillset, the only moves available at his first turn are 250TU, 50TU, and Step Back at 0TU (which doesn’t count as part of the 50 sec requirement).

Now say we wanted to activate his SS as quickly as possible. At +0, it’s easy: simply use his 50TU move, and then by his next turn we would be able to activate the SS.

However, if we have Burns at even just +1, the 50TU move is then reduced to 48TU, so by his second turn we still wouldn’t be able to use his SS, which still requires 50 secs to have passed. Therefore we’d either have to hope that skipping our turn would satisfy the requirement, or we would have to use one of the his two other moves at 242TU (250TU reduced) or 193TU (200TU reduced). If forced into the latter option, this means that we wouldn’t be able to use him or his SS until his turn came back around, and the likelihood of Burnsalot surviving 193+ seconds is slim. This is a huge bummer.

So as it stands now, in order to quickly use Burns’ SS, we’re forced into setting his Seconds Reduction at +0 so that we can keep his 50TU move at 50TU thereby satisfying the SS’s TU requirement. However with such a high-TU moveset, missing out on the TU reductions is crippling to a mon like Burns. I believe that this is bad for the game.

Some may say “just use his 50TU move twice,” but that doesn’t work for Burns as his 50TU is a charge (with the intent that his next move would be his 200TU move). I’m bringing Burns up as an example of what I believe is a flaw in the way TU requirements are used right now.

I therefore propose that these types of TU requirements also scale with a mon’s bonus. i.e., if Burns was at +1, his SS would be available after 48TU (same as it’s 50TU reduced move after the +1 bonus).

Examples of similar scenarios include:

  • Leo’s Inspire (This skill can only be used after 100 seconds have passed since the start of battle)

  • Doomengine’s 150 Twin Bomb (This skill can only be used after the user has been in battle for more than 150 seconds)

  • Aurodragon’s Instant Switch Friend (This skill can only be used…once 50 seconds have passed since this monster’s first turn)

I’d like to get the community’s thoughts on this and any input our devs @Dev_VKC @Dev_BRD have as well.

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Thats a good idea

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100% agreed I leave my emeraldus normal because of death mark.

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There are a few cases where this would be bad, like 150s twin bomb, 400s novablast and other similar ones (survivor?). These definitely shouldn’t be changed, it would change the way they’re intended to work too much.

However, there are also a few cases like you mention with Burnsalot’s secret skill that are stupidly designed for just the +0 version. So far the Devs have sorted this by making the restricted time low enough that it won’t matter. For example, Aurodragon’s 50s restriction and Bovolcus’ 50s restriction on deathmatch mode (purify goes too fast, but it’s got 70TU slayerbane to use to pass ~60s).

I think the easiest solution would be for them to fix any cases like Burnsalot’s SS to ensure you don’t get any irritating results when you lower the TU of their moves. For Burns that means making it 40s or 30s (to account for accelerating too).

Yeah that’s probably the most awkward case. Making the 200s get reduced by potting and, say, accelerating too would make it go down to 126s (link accelerate) which is MUCH faster than 200s. That might be a bit much. What I’d prefer to see on Emeraldeus is them change the TU of deathmark to 160 but keep the enemy dying after 200s. That way, no matter what you have it potted at you could deathmark then accelerate before the enemy dies and having it potted would mean you could line things up very nicely to get a turn right after the enemy dies.

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Thanks for your thoughts @Killerdog. At +5, if 400megabomb scaled it’d be ~345 secs, and if 150Twin Bomb scaled it’d be ~130. I don’t think those are too drastic of adjustments to their current TUs as they stand now. But that’s just my opinion :smiley:

If that is indeed too much, I’d also offer the option to potentially increase the number that would be scaled down. i.e., 400megabomb -> 450 or something along those lines to allow for scaling. Though then people who don’t have legendary pots would be put at a disadvantage. Thinking as I post here…

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It would make doomengine playable.

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At +9 it would be ~338s. Sleep lasts 320s so it could be timed to work way too soon after OoO. In reality, at +9 monsters will pass 109s each time they’re asleep so the first turn it gets after waking up is 327s after its first, so it’ll need to pass 11s then could Novablast. For a monster like Wraithhost which has hold ground this is exceptionally easy.

Think also if it factored in accelerate. Novablast could be achieved in as small a time as 254s (link) or 271s (standard). 150s twin bomb would be going down to roughly 100s with +9 and accelerated. Sure, in the case of Doomengine it doesn’t have much else going for it but for another monster this could make it much more threatening. It’s less of an issue with the smaller times like 150s because the reduction wouldn’t be so much but still a possible issue.

As for increasing the general TU of moves, that’s a potential way to make it work. However, yeah it almost relies on things being potted then which is a pain for everyone without potions and might make the AI controlled teams very poor if certain monsters basically rely on their move TU being reduced to be effective.

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All of your points received, and I agree with most of them. But also a couple of things to also consider:

  • You bring up a good point on OoO - but that’s what sleep immunity and other OoO defenses are for :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

  • The % of players who are going to +9 a novablast mon would seemingly be low. And honestly if they did then they’d deserve that advantage! Also: purifying mist!

  • If this were implemented it would make more mons viable for use within PVP (as Zard mentioned). I’d rather have it this way for the greater good than to continue using the same PVP mons all the time. It’s a win-win in my book

  • A follow-on to my last point: If there was concern about novablast being too OP they could make it so that a team acceleration doesn’t affect the TU req, or something along those lines

I appreciate the discussion!

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_20181025_222051

Burns needs some love!

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He’s so lonley and it burns a lot

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Thanks for listening :slight_smile: Just another note about Novablast… I got to try out Captainwhiskers lots while it still had 300s requirement on the neko barrage (pretty much what we’d have with the above change). It was insanely strong and pushed to 400s restriction with good reason. For Captainwhiskers you could line it up so in 1-2s after the OoO sleep ended he did neko barrage. With the proposed change he’d have to skip behind the next monster but it would be back to how he was before, along with other novablast monsters then becoming similar. My gut instinct is it’s too strong.

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Excellent @Exu

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I like the idea seems good but for certain monsters it has and must be restricted.

Ie. 400 tu bomb must stay as 400 tu as this will ruin the game if the tu is reduced via potions.

Other stuff is fine and seems plausible.

Also…

Unfortuneatley you mistake how broken combos can be. So plus 9 and low TU moves mean we will see a lot of 400tu bombarding

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Nonetheless for certain mons it’s an awesome idea.

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Great point on whiskers. That would be OPx3

At the end of the day I’d like to be able to actually use my bonuses as opposed to letting the go to waste. Hopefully devs will consider some of these alternatives and weigh in and/or implement something…especially for the fringe mons such as Burns

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The problem with this game atm is that it has so many fringe legends it’s unbelievable. There must be 50 or so that need some kind of love. It’s a sad state of affairs that regular egg legends have been left behind

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Very true issue.

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Agreed, it’s like we have 7 stars legends

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