This is already a trend

What happened?? :flushed:

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I just want to add a slightly different perspective to the Maeve debate.

It wasn’t long ago, threads much larger than this one were being created regarding Rock lock. For those who don’t know, Rocklock is the process of forcing 3 rockoids onto your opponents side of the field and then bypassing them to defeat your sad opponent.

Before I go any further, I just want to say that both Rocklock and Maeve are dear to me for reasons I won’t explain. But Rocklock is certainly the larger evil.

Maeve is such a strong counter to Rocklock. In fact, I haven’t seen a Rocklock team for a while and that’s mainly because Maeve shifted the meta. I know a regular Rocklock user and she says that Maeve is the only counter she really struggles with.

I understand Maeve might need tweaking, but the one thing that cannot happen, is for her to lose her nullifying strike or it’s damage. Otherwise Rocklock will rise again and people moan about that instead. It is far easier to deal with Maeve, who has to pretty much do the work of 2 monsters to justify her place, when paired with Iris (which she usually is), than a Rocklock.

To balance Maeve, I think the shield is the most difficult thing. It makes all 4 FL monsters much harder to deal with. Make it only shield flutters.

Perhaps a slight defence reduction if people still feel strongly about her. Second form could have Bloodthirst instead of fury if people are seriously unhappy.

Then you will typically have Iris who won’t do anything ground breaking and Maeve who maybe bags one kill at 78 speed, leaving 2 more FL mons, giving you time to deal with Maeve at 91 TU (max)

An Orca typically bags one focused kill at 76 speed (I think) but takes up one slot and has less TU, granted it is easier to kill, but the 2 monsters are fairly comparable here (after nerf).

Tl:dr Maeve prevents Rocklock. Keep her attack and nullifying strike exactly the same. Change her shielding passive if anything to only shield flutters. Gentle nerf.

Just my 2 cents. But if Maeve gets heavy nerf, expect a big Rocklock meta, which I will also be part of :partying_face: #newtoys

I was thinking about making a nerf thread but stopped halfway through because I figured it would be better for me to simply crush all the stupid poseidon and maeve setups with my chodeknight team.

Personally, I think skeleviathan should lose petrify revenge, maeve should get a speed nerf and/or a ss nerf, and poseidon should have its speed nerf reverted and be given camouflage entrance (if necessary, myst too) If anyone wants to argue against this, frankly I don’t care since I already know I’ll be getting at least top 3 this season with the meta as it is lol

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Petrify Revenge is so better than any other Death Revenge out there. Imho it should work like the other DR skills: deals mortal damage to the enemy, and if AND ONLY IF the enemy is killed by that damage it’s turned into a rock.

I don’t know why should it bypass HG and Shields as well as having another strong secondary effect

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:eyes:

Two things:

  1. I saw 3 rocklock teams last ranked PvP (from maybe 40 matches), that’s a similar number as back when rocklock had a big fuss being made about it. Basically, it still exists in the meta in its small way even with Maeve around.

  2. Saying an overpowered monster is justified because it’s needed to counter something is a horrendous reason. A single monster isn’t enough to suppress a strategy unless that monster is taking up an unhealthy portion of the meta (since Maeve is only used in FL). Also, it would be easy enough to create other, not overpowered, counters to that thing if it’s necessary.

There’s a few unnecessarily strong things about Maeve. Any combination of them should be tackled:

  • nullifying strike high damage
  • too high speed
  • shields going on whole team

P.S. It’s already bloodthirst on the second form.

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I rated myself in the top 10 using rock lock on a Maebe meta

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Rock lock is definitely a lot less common nowadays since maeve teams do counter it quite a bit. I do agree that maeve holding rock lock in check isn’t a good justification for leaving it alone so how about we nerf both of them!

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I didn’t say that though did I :man_facepalming:t2: here you go…

Please don’t put words in players mouths.

I just said keep its nullifying strike, because it’s a good counter to RL, which is a bigger evil.

Maeve IS taking up an unhealthy portion of the meta. This thread literally refers to it as a trend. This season I saw over 12 different Maeve teams.

And yes it is enough to suppress a strategy “even though it’s in FL” because rocklock is also an FL based strategy.

It is merely this I disagree with. Look at the rest. But leave the nullify alone, or Rocklock will become even more prevalent again.

I’m not bothered if that happens though. I’m just warning the community :man_shrugging:t2: Either is fine by me

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Nullification should punish revenge just like it does but it shouldn’t do any damage to monsters without revenge.

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Yeah that would work. It should do maybe half damage and then critical for revenge. Like a confidence strike.

Messing with the nullify will make it very difficult to charge though. It’s the only attack it’s got, other than bloodfury.

Personally I would change the shielding and maybe lower the speed a little

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It is true although it would be fairer based on what would stand firm to punish rock Lock DR and others but it would require better constructions around since it could not take care of all situations.

Yeah, the problem is that it will take a lot more building around, but then Maeve requires another flutter which takes a slot already. She has to do the work of almost 2 monsters. Maybe 1.5 lol. This is why I think the shielding and slight speed reduction is enough.

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Yeah , she just needs to adjust one thing , we don’t want to destroy her not make her useless , just balance her power a bit , it’s been shown that people use maebe in fl because it’s easier set it up because of the speed, she only needs to make a few of the settings that are proposed

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Yes! I agree! I just think it’s just best not to choose nullify

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I wasn’t saying you called it overpowered, I was referring to the overall discussion of it being overpowered but you claiming that it’s justified being strong in certain ways. It’s not any extrapolation of the truth and it wasn’t a quote of you!

Reading the rest of your reply… I think you misread a lot more of what I wrote, picking out random things rather than the points themselves. Give it another read if you want, I’m not going to try and explain everything

That’s exactly what I thought when you picked out such a short extract of mine.

You literally quoted me and responded with the above :joy::joy:

You are saying

I am saying Nullying strike high damage should NOT be tackled, but the rest can be.

I don’t think I’ve misinterpreted that? Or the fact you say a single monster can’t suppress a meta, that I understand, I simply disagree with :sweat_smile:

My points were:
a) Rocklock is still around, Maeve isn’t suppressing it as much as you seem to suggest.
b) Justifying something people believe is unbalanced and are unhappy with by calling it a necessary evil is a bad idea.
c) It’s easy to get around the necessary evil by making something else that does the good thing without also being unbalanced for the game and making people unhappy.
d) A single monster isn’t enough to suppress a problem unless it itself is a problem (because it’s being played too much). I.e. We don’t need to hold onto this one thing Maeve might be doing.
d2) Maeve is only a FL monster so to get to the point where it’s being played enough means it’s causing an even bigger problem in the meta (it has to be a very strong FL compared to other options, rather than simply a generally strong monster people jam into their teams).
e) Three strong things which Maeve has that seem too much and could easily be nerfed (perhaps some combination of them).

We already mentioned (b), which you mistook what I meant. You also seemed to not get what I was saying with (d) and (d2). (a) and (c) you didn’t respond to, so I hope those were clear enough. (e) I actually missed the word “combination”, I’ve edited my original post now

I think Maeve combines a few unhealthy things of which the shield actually is the least problematic thing.

In order:

1.) High speed + critical damage move + focus

2.) High speed + knockback + focus

  1. High speed + insane stats + shield all.

4.) Unnecessary insomnia

It’s absurd, completely absurd that Maeve hits with critical damage on monsters with no revenge with nullifying strike. Make her crit on stuff with a revenge. If the monster doesn’t have a revenge, she shouldn’t do critical damage.

The speed is another issue because basically Maeve is everywhere and it makes the meta super dull because you either run Maeve or something that’s faster than 77+9.

Knockback at effectively 86 speed shouldn’t exist on a monster with such a strong moveset (compare with capy)

My preferred nerf would be to simply slow her down to roughly 65 speed. If that’s not possible adjust the damage on nullifying strike to only do critical damage on revenge monsters and replace knockback with a more balanced move

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if I were in charge of balance changes (bad idea, never let this happen) I’d probably just nerf maeve’s speed and/or nullifying strike, give poseidon camo entrance, give skeleviathan payback revenge (leaving hanzo as the only leggie with petrify), halve tranquilizing entrance’s stun, and nerf orca’s speed too. If link fire gets too strong, consider a speed nerf for infernicorn and/or magmarinus. It would be nice if the meta wasn’t so awful like how it is right now but I don’t rlly care that much lol

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