Tried that, didnāt go too well, thatās why we agreed to change the system if Iām allowed to refresh your memory here 
Weāre not talking about hp boosts. This is just for the general tier list
We now have a voting thread for the tier list. Please note that this is a test drive for now. So use it with responsibility if you want this feature to stay
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Update
Notes:
We recently had an update to version 2.37 which you can see here. This post will cover the movements with regards to these changes. We also had version 2.36 but that didnāt change any monsters, it just changed some AI and added more monsters to MBQ.
Nyx got a tweak to fermata so accelerate no longer removes the slow. This is mainly to force you to use slow monsters with it, since previously you could have a high speed accelerate team (e.g. Shieldragon) and still use high speed monsters. However, it makes it impossible to counter. Overall Iād say it makes the monster a tiny bit weaker. The secret skill got changed to instant sendbackā¦ which has HUGE potential for combos and makes Nyx amazingly flexible both in the FL and outside it. So in total, Nyx is better. Itās already S+ in general and S in PvP so Iām not moving it but itās very strong!
Gnashjaw got enlist on the same TU as legendaries, which doesnāt do a whole lot but it means in the future weāll always see it at this slightly more competitive TU on SEs.
Yin/Yang got ways to sacrifice themselves, making Ldiefaethās substitute move creating them less oppressive. However, itās still a great monster so I think S tier for both lists is fair.
Movements:
The changes below are only with respect to the changes in version 2.37.
Deus X moves from F ā D in general, piercing makes this much more effective against buffed monsters in PvE. Itās a nice upgrade to the monsters, but itās still a bit slow for PvP and other mythics outclass what Deus X does so no movement there.
Redybug moves from S ā S- in general, S ā S- in PvP and removed from SEs veterans utilise (win conditions), I really shouldāve had this in S+ before, it was super powerful. Itās been very heavily nerfed with the Redybug being much slower if it wants to both protect and summon the Goldoise. After doing so it cannot support with damage either and if it dies then Goldoise cannot follow up with sleep because all enemies are poisoned. Now itās basically a tanky protector for 10 cost in reptile teams, rather than being a very strong monster in any team and absurd in reptile teams. I think itās a great shame the nerf messed a lot with the functionality of the moveset, rather than simply making it weaker. In many cases it wonāt even be worth summoning the Goldoise.
Leira moves from C ā E in general, with moogong now getting a way to sacrifice itself (which I assume the AI uses?) this now takes more work to build around for heavy control. Itās still worth doing in PvP but in PvE I think there are better options.
It will always use protect first dual flux if something is shielded even if sleep bomb can be used so its still abusable for a wile in pve but you have to get rid of it whitin id say 400 secs minimum or get sleep locked by the moonog
Seems like Redybug should be lower nowā¦ like you said, they didnāt just nerf it, they killed its functionality.
I was going to bring this up in another thread (still might) but I think the Devs need to have a discussion about what they did to this mon. I understand that itās an SE and supposed to be mediocre, but my goodness they essentially gave it a Bastia level nerf that they eventually reverted.
It either needs that poison revenge removed and replaced with literally anything else, or just have the one passive and call it a day. Or, I guess put poison eater on Goldoise?
There are plenty of solutions given how badly they actually butchered the concept 
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They tried to solve this infamous Momo Redybug infinite loop, but what they did was a kill on a decent SE and also a big hit to any reptile teams - Nagandia, Ophi, Sui etc.
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Yeah I am definitely going to discuss it with VKC and see if it can have something back.
When deciding where to put it in the tier list it was very tricky. The thing is, itās still a very tanky protector for any team with a reptile. Compared to other SEs, thatās something quite valuable. So I settled on S- eventually, but thatās not saying itās goodā¦ itās just playable in reptile teams and better than a bunch of mediocre SEs in generic teams.
P.S. @PurpleHeart Thanks for the info!
2 Likes
Update
Notes:
We recently had an update to version 2.39 which you can see here. This post will cover the movements with regards to these changes. We also had version 2.38 but that didnāt change any monsters, it just added player profiles and fixed some bugs.
A couple of highlights from the update:
- New sound effects for these moves: ASMR, Terrorize, Terminal Virus, Blizzard (All), Frozen Wave, Goddessā Protection, Vow, Fermata, Drift, Heart Burst, Pounce, Clumsy Entrance. (Thanks to VKC for the full list)
- A bunch more battle icons and the PvP timer flashing on the screen when itās low are good quality of life improvements to make the game less brain-taxing, especially for players who arenāt veterans.
Orochi got the HP cost reduced from 50% to 40% so itās now possible to fulu twice without dying, allowing for chaining stunning fulu to stun lock the enemy team and then having Orochi surviving as a sweeper afterwards (plus with a swift revival). I was just about to drop her a tier so instead Iām leaving her in S- tier (for both). Also, I just found out that if you stunning fulu and she dies then the stun bisector wouldnāt halve the stun! So previously you could do the move twice and stun all enemies for 300s! That considered, perhaps the change in this update is actually intended as a nerf to thatā¦ hard to tell. Either way, Iām not changing the tier list positions until we see how she plays.
Geisthorn and Sephileon both had minor ācorrectionsā, a monster type change and a TU change that was missed when other pure cure moves were reduced.
Airavalon I havenāt actually added yet!
V.D. Delta and V.D. Gamma had their zealous attack / piercing blow swapped, which gives Gamma something to finally stand out with but itās still outclassed and Delta really needed the nerf to be honest because it was a very clear S+ and now itās just a strong S+.
Movements:
There werenāt actually any movements to do this time! All changes were either minor or where Iām unsure about what to do (Orochi)!
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ITS HAPPENING ITS HAPPENING
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I did that one before dinner, doing the rest now.
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Nice,canāt wait.
Lucifelle and Lilithia being E in general must be the reason they are always targeted first by enemies becuase they are so bad. And for PvE they must also suck with their piercing double sweep moves.
Ooh, I might have to turn the sounds on after years of having them off! 
Lilithia doesnāt piercing sweep? Its main benefit is when youāre trading back and forth with the enemy teamā¦ which isnāt what you want to be doing in PvE. Obviously counter sleep will be brilliant in some battles though.
Lucifelle is a good sweeper with a give turn setup, but there are other monsters that achieve the same goal in PvE or that donāt need a specific setup to perform well. I.e. What it offers is outclassed in the context of PvE.
Feel free to share some of your own insight if you feel differently.
Update
Notes:
Our summer additions of 2023 have been some really strong ones yet again, especially the mythics! Letās dive right in.
Additions:
These are done in order of release with mythics, legendaries then super epics, etcā¦
Goliatherion goes in at S for general, S- for PvP, second form tier 3 and S for HP boost, with the SS itās able to set up star eater for the first turn and from there be incredibly dangerous. Hardened carapace and hold ground to get it to that first turn also plays a big part. Literally the only thing holding it back here is the low speed. This is an easy one to underestimate but itās a must-kill target on the battlefield so you better have a way to take down something tanky when it comes into play.
Bridalith goes in at D for general, C for PvP, second form tier 1 and B for HP boost, with an entrance that shields enemies and pushes one out of play by 100s this is a complicated one to judge properly. Also, toxic rebirth makes further entrances more complicated. Ultimately, Iām settling on this being mediocre because it does well when youāre trading back and forth but not super well otherwise. To build around it you simply use piercing monsters then it gives you one-side value on entrance and on its first turn it can shieldbreaker something. This is a decent baseline and Bridalith is clearly powercrept compared to early mythics (high defence + guaranteed kills), but other mythics give better long-term value.
Vixenblade goes in at S+ for general, S+ for PvP, second form tier 1 and S for HP boost, with crazy stats, speed, piercing and low TU moves this is in strong contention for being the strongest monster in the game (either this or Carmilla). This is quickly proving itself in PvP so I donāt think I need to explain too much but basically it tanks like mad while punishing being ignored and all the time gives consistent killing. Near the front it stops the opponent getting any momentum, further back it can swing a match back in your favour. One-on-one is not even necessary, but itās an extra layer you can build around or just use when it will warp a battle favourably. Building the team with no beasts or water monsters is definitely a restriction, but totally worth the payoff here.
Vespia goes in at B for general, A for PvP, second form tier 1 and A for HP boost, with good killing moves, a big first turn, ability to smooth out your team and tanky stats this is another power creep mythic that definitely plays well. Nothing stands out as crazy though so it doesnāt quite hit the very top level. For example, compare it to Goliatherion which is much harder to kill and has 60TU killing. 70-100TU Stun converter sweeping is no joke, but low speed and toxic+chrono weakness hold it down.
Luna goes in at A for general, C for PvP, second form tier 2 and D for HP boost, with night veil stacking up a huge number of passives on Luna (focus, camo, sleep/poison immune, half stun immune) this seems pretty coolā¦ except it has poor speed and defence plus no actual synergy potential. It also lacks piercing, low TU sweeping and has no control moves, so doesnāt compare well against many other mythics. For PvP the baseline here is still alright because it will always threaten either a 100TU retribution or 200TU double kill, but itās still not going to perform in the same league as others. Sleep immunity + camo works nicely in PvE.
Wolhammer goes in at A for general, D for PvP and D for HP boost, with a lot in there to survive and then a 100TU piercing move once time has passed this is very clear what it wants to do. Terrorize is handy in the front line because Wolhammer has good speed, but ultimately Iām not impressed by what this monster offers. There are much better alternatives to build around. For example, Bundam generally plays a lot better.
Geoceron goes in at D for general, S- for PvP and D for HP boost, with decent speed, HG and 130TU knockback, this can mess with the opponentās line-up very nicely in a way thatās hard to stop. Otherwise, it can focus on getting a kill then do stun converter sweeping at low TU. It doesnāt have the perfect way to get a kill, but it tends to play very well with the flexibility of removing enemies or teammates and a low TU piercing move for finishing off something. This is an impressive new monster for PvP weāre bound to see quite a lot.
Airavalon goes in at F for general, F for PvP and D for HP boost, with no way to charge itself this is a really awkward moveset and Iām honestly really confused how Airavalon was created this way. Time freeze seems really odd too. There isnāt really anything saving it and 30TU sacrificing teammates isnāt much better than 60TU backbite. Instant ally substitute allows one quick charge but past that itās not going to do much and to be honest thatās barely any different to Burnsalot, which is a very small bar to climb.
Geisthorn goes in at A for general, B for PvP and D for HP boost, with good passives and 130TU double sweeping this looks impressive, except that if things donāt go well then itās very unimpressive. Low speed and a bad fail case make this overall quite medium I think. In poison teams without earth it should be a fine inclusion though. Just to be clear, it needs both enemies poisoned to do great damage. It suffers from a similar problem to Atlantyrant and Iām placing it basically inbetween it and Oakthulhu.
Rosegeist goes in at A for general, S for PvP and D for HP boost, with a highly aggressive moveset, focus and auto-poison all this seems like a good new poison monster. The speed isnāt too bad, especially considering it has swift terrorise to mess with the enemy team as soon as it gets a turn (42TU for +80s to an enemy is a good trade). Mutual inversion is really interesting too, I think it will play really well in practice to tackle high defence enemies and bypass revenges (lifeflip them when they recently entered so they die to poison)ā¦ all at 100TU! Even if it puts Rosegeist onto low HP that might be worth the trade. Overall, this is might help power poison in the FL or mid-game, where itās been lacking lately due to most popular poison monsters being either low speed or high TU moves.
Virus dragon epsilon goes in at C for general and A for PvP, with an anti-token disruption entrance and stun control martyr passive this is better than most of the virus dragons. Despairing strike is a bit underwhelming though, even if dragons are reasonably common. So Iām putting it roughly average for the V.D.s but bear in mind if you want both stun protection and a way to remove annoying tokens then this is a decent option.
Dreadmoth goes in at S+ for general and S+ for PvP, with amazing flexibility choosing between three moths this is both cool and a solid threat in many scenarios. The big issue is getting two kills for bloodthirst. If you meet sleep or stun then the killer moves do the job of getting two kills but antidote for poison isnāt a guaranteed kill and against DR or protectors you might get just one kill. Also, if you donāt meet any of these archetypes then thereās not much it can do. So ultimately this is definitely a very strong monster for 10 cost but you might want to have a backstab around. I think itās best for having protection from sleep in your team or dealing with protectors/DR. Thereās also some combo potential. E.g. Lunactia enemy substitute into a moth with guardian execute / true hit. My personal favourite is Mantisamurai with shadow morph for the sleep immunity + purify to wake up the team (Mantisamurai+1 and Dreadmoth+9 does it nicely).
Torpedorus goes in at S for general and S for PvP, with impressive sweeping power this is another monster only held back by its low speed. You definitely need to remove stun protection, then Torpedorus cannot be killed without punishing the enemy team and when it gets a turn you can link stun wave to great effect. I think this is ironically a fair bit stronger than Geisthorn above! Itās also a stronger Atlantyrant in my mind. However, being restricted to link water is a tough one, especially with so many good legendaries/mythics for link water.
Virus dragon zeta goes in at C for general and A for PvP, with passives that arenāt reliably useful this doesnāt stand out among the virus dragons. Nullifying strike is second only to deltaās piercing blow so that saves it a little. Overall, itās another medium V.D.
Slimetank goes in at D for general, with probably the most troll-like moveset weāve seen, this respawns a ridiculous number of times. I think you have to kill it 15 times! The problem is, Iām not quite sure how to build around it. If anyone has ideas then let me know! I think probably itās just to be put as a funny opponent for us in PvE. For anyone who doesnāt know, this was a meme monster from the early days of the game.
Note on terminal virus:
Now weāve seen the V.D.s in practice I realise that terminal virus is a lot better than I expected. It triggers even if the enemy is killed by the attack that puts it below 50% HP and counts as an āindirectā kill so wonāt trigger a bunch of revenges like death revenge. This gives it lots of uses to counter enemies and otherwise at 130TU it helps contribute to damage output very effectively. Basically, this means the virus dragons have a pretty good baseline power level for PvP. Iāve reviewed the positions I put the V.D.s in and donāt want to change any, but itās made Delta in particular very dangerous. Many SEs / stun absorbers you can ignore because they donāt contribute as much benefit on the battlefield as other monsters, but with terminal virus and other moves which are situationally great they tend to perform very well in practice.
Movements:
I shifted down a bunch of the mythics in PvP to stop it from becoming slightly top heavy. Otherwise, just a few that I noticed are probably a bit out of place for whatever reason. As always, thanks for the community suggestions!
Mythics going up:
Momo moves from S ā S+ in general, fastbreaker damage is 6-7k damage which is enough to one-shot reasonably buffed enemies and the extra turns from stun as well as the tanking is simply really really good. I thought to myself āitās not a win conditionā but what it adds to a team is huge.
Asmodia moves from A ā S- in PvP, Iāve gone back and forth between these two tiers. Point is, itās a good comeback monster for teams with poison end-games.
Mythics going down:
Sakuralisk moves from S+ ā S in general, definitely very strong, but needs some building around to charge double bloodthirst so I think Momo is a clearly better stun counter choice for PvE.
Hazuki moves from S- ā B in general, no longer comes back with the enemy buff on the second life.
Hu Shin moves from S- ā A in PvP, while exceptionally strong, the team building restriction makes it very niche.
Kanna moves from S- ā A in PvP, basically only for front line use, in specific teams.
Y Ddraig Goch moves from A ā B in PvP
Akane moves from D ā E in general and B ā C in PvP, while good in theory, Iāve never seen it or heard anything about it. It might be niche.
Arachnodrake moves from B ā C in PvP, far stronger than people give it credit for due to its piercing stealthbane which it sets up on entrance (you canāt remove stealth from your team so Arachno threatens 100TU sweeping at its baseline and can combo with other stealthbane monsters). However, long-term on the battlefield it can be lacklustre and itās not an end-game monster so I understand itās unappealing.
Scyberithe moves from B ā C in PvP, definitely makes strong FL setups, but is not fully reliable and is very specific in its use case.
Aoi moves from C ā D in PvP
Chronozillion moves from C ā D in PvP
Rhinedragon moves from C ā D in PvP
Voidress moves from D ā E in PvP
Legendaries going up:
Stormloch (s) moves from C ā A in PvP, link shadow has now got to a very playable point and this is a great payoff for it. I hope people start trying it out. The only drawback is the first turn is slow.
Tortogeist moves from D ā A in PvP, years ago there was lots of stun and repulse in PvP which could disable this (double repulse used to be only 70TU!). Also, you could more often give the opponent a monster that wouldnāt be useful. These days, most of the monsters we use are super strong and generally useful plus we play fewer things that will disable it. It also trades super well with mythics, which Iāve seen a lot of mythic players doing to deal with their tougher opponents. Itās definitely become a playable monster and is strong when youāre playing a high level.
Lionheart moves from D ā C in PvP, I was a little harsh on this. Itās not a monster top players use but itās a fine playable monster in other teams.
Legendaries going down:
Geomagnus moves from A ā D in PvP, there are so many monsters which have backstab now this is not needed any more.
Magmarinus moves from A ā B in PvP, sadly the link slayerbane all nerf of 100s restriction has almost completely ruined this monster. Needing to do two berserk attacks first is not enough impact because of the random targeting that other link fire payoffs tend to do better.
Nulltron moves from C ā D in PvP, the stun pulse nerf hurts this so much and stealth is a bigger thing these days.
Super epics going up:
Turbotusk moves from S ā S+ in PvP, this has proven itself to be worthwhile as FL stun protection even in top teams. Give turn and true hit are both great and the chrono weakness is worth it in teams which want that GT.
Super epics going down:
Jackalhotep moves from S ā S- in PvP, there are many better ways to build OoO now.
Elephantom moves from S- ā A in PvP, this is leftover from ages ago.
4 Likes
Thought Vespia would be S- but im fine with where she is
Noooo my Rhinedragon keeps going downš, i hope they add him to standard mythic pool this year so i can awaken him,
Itās really tough competition when you get into S- on the mythics. I know each person who looks at those top three tiers will be able to pick out a couple of monsters theyād personally rate lower, but what the monsters offer is huge so itās hard to make a case for anything to move up into it.
Sadly, Rhinedragon just doesnāt offer as much as other mythics, especially the newer ones coming out. The goldoids are cool and it can always keep dealing damage no matter the situation but thatās about all it offers in a unique way so itās hard to justify it staying up there. Basically itās better than the ābadā mythics which can become deadweight, but worse than almost all the ones that arenāt like that.
@Coltraz I just want to addā¦ I considered moving Nyx up to S+ but donāt really have enough knowledge about it. At some point Iāll probably swap Cynthia and Nyx but want to be certain before I do that. Iām tagging you with this because I know youāre probably someone whoās thinking this swap should happen.
Isnāt Antidote double piercing move? She should be higher just becase she is one of the best supporters with crazy passive, counters both sleep and poison setups and on top of that can pure cure or pullback a stunned teammate.
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