🏆 Neo Monsters tier list (see first post) 🏆

[Coltraz]

There are. I (and others I talk with regularly) am just surprised by the blindness on this one. It’s not a dig, but an usual question comes to mind—do you own her and use her? She is not an obvious S+ because she looks bad on paper, while she is more than amazing when you get to play her.

[Coltraz]

Yes. I wish more people would experience the full ranked and how it feels and works being in the top 20 bracket—how stressful it gets, how GOOD those at the top actually are (in both team-building and real-time plays).

[444]

I don’t actually like her; I consider her bad, and what’s truly good about her is her strategy in FL. Without that strategy, I wouldn’t consider her bad, because that would be excessive, but I wouldn’t consider her good either; I’d put her at an intermediate level.

[444]

In my opinion, that’s the only time you see the true power of the monsters you use and those used by your opponents, since those who fight for the top 10 or number 1 spot use the best teams, strategies, and monsters of that season, in addition to being the best players of that season. Playing with Tier C monsters or with a bad or Tier C strategy would prevent them from reaching the top.

[Killerdog]

@444

When I say “at the highest level,” I mean when you’re fighting for the top 1 or 10 spots. You have to use the best strategy, and in this rank, Azulin was the best. If it were C-tier, as you say, 5 or 4 of those who finished in the top 10 wouldn’t have used it.

@444

Playing with Tier C monsters or with a bad or Tier C strategy would prevent them from reaching the top.

I appreciate the explanation of your perspective.

I’ll explain mine. Something doesn’t have to be S tier to be strong enough to work in a top 10 team. The setup for Azulyn is quite specific and is a very recent development of PvP meta, so we haven’t seen people adapt and counter it properly. Being specific both narrows how many people can utilise it (more generic monsters get put in higher tiers for the tier list) and also makes it less versatile to work around counters.

There are many monsters that become strong in the right setup or that perform very well when they line up properly but not everything can be considered S tier. The tier list here is not trying to reflect what the current meta choice is so, all things considered, I moved her to B/C and noted the recent setup she’s enabling but unless Azulyn FLs maintain dominance for a few months we don’t have enough evidence to even call it a top monster yet.

@444

someone who’s fighting for a top 100 spot might think that someone like Ankara is overpowered

I’d be careful drawing lines like “top 100”. Everyone has their own perspective on what is top competitive vs casual players. The truth is it’s impossible to figure out where a line exists. What’s important in my case is I match against top players (and always have done) so I get to see what’s strong and what people are using. I don’t play hundreds of games each season but I do enough to get an idea of everything and I obsessively analyse everything to put together a decent enough picture. So I don’t know if the fact I don’t grind ranked really changes my perspective on anything, but I know what you’re saying that people who are playing this game casually and not keeping up with all the strategy will not have enough experience/knowledge to have inciteful perspective. My brother has played this game for 8 years and knows so little compared to me, he’s too much of a casual

@Coltraz

She is not an obvious S+ because she looks bad on paper, while she is more than amazing when you get to play her.

I do get it. The tier position is mostly due to how specific the team building is for the setup right now (limiting accessibility and versatility as said above). Since her release I’ve been saying “I could be wrong about this one” and I definitely overlooked the whole lifeflip / stepback way of running her in the FL.

[444]

If you look above, I said something similar. What I meant is that two people who play at different ranked levels won’t have the same opinion about most of the monsters, etc., etc. But I don’t think your ranking of Azulin is bad, because I have a similar opinion about it.I don’t think it’s a C; maybe I’d give it an S or an A+, or maybe an A, but everyone has their own opinion. However, I think A+ is the most accurate representation of what I think of her.

[SILVERUS]

There’s a lot of things that will influence how someone would “grade” something. not just whether you are a consistent top 20 player in PvP or not. Certainly, that does provide a different perspective than those who are not top players. But that does not mean whatever the top 5 players in the game say is God tier or trash tier is the absolute final truth. There will still be some bias in many ways.

I played against a surprisingly large number of teams using Azulyn this season, and I’d say my win rate was 92% against it… Azulyn does require very specific team members to use Qingfang Waltz, it’s strongest move, and running a 10-cost sacrifice to get the first kill, though a strong option, is also a 10-point weakness in the team building process when fighting an equally strong team and player. From what I’ve experienced, Azulyn in C tier seems fair… But with what others have said about her, I can see B-Tier is more appropriate. Can she be higher, it’s too early to till. Next season will definitely reveal more, now that people know what to expect from her. I think KD is doing alright and also keeping an open mind for the future.

She is a new monster and there is a lot of interest right now, so it’s seems like everyone is using her if they have her. But this alone doesn’t mean she’s an automatic S tier.

And there’s so much more to being a top player than one specific monster. With excellent battle instincts, extreme monster knowledge of passive skills and Secret Skills, genius tactical choices on stalling or killing a specific monster, and great team building skills, I feel i can give a consistent top 20 player 4 random monsters for the FL, and they will still somehow make it into the top 20, again… Guaranteed probably top 50. They are just built differently!

[Killerdog]

@444

I have a similar opinion about it.I don’t think it’s a C; maybe I’d give it an S or an A+, or maybe an A, but everyone has their own opinion. However, I think A+ is the most accurate representation of what I think of her.

Yeah and I’d generally say that when people say particular tiers it’s usually 1 tier higher than it should probably be placed in a tier list because there’s a natural tendency to go top heavy with the placements. So if I were to go with exactly what you’re saying I’d probably go A/B tier. I’ve settled on B/C tier for my own perspective. Ultimately I could place it B tier rather than C tier but there’s such a small difference I don’t want to fuss over it. I’d like to see how it does over time.

Similar to Silverus, I had mixed impressions when meeting it in PvP this season. It’s a cool and strong setup but might not last and once it’s gone then Azulyn might just become a niche monster that’s mostly benched.

[Kirisune]

You kinda also have to keep in mind the hidden rock-paper-scissors part of the game where one FL beats/loses to another outright. Especially with what is popularized at the moment. To my understanding, KD’s version is based on ‘how well it does in a vacuum’.

An example is that if everyone spammed link fire like they used to, suddenly Ash Eater/Flameeater mons become supposedly S tier by default, which is not how to measure them against literally anything else.

It’s the same kind of scenario where Daji just sits there and clones if left alone but starts eating through teams with a woolala next to it. Even Pandora + box vs no box.

To my mind, anything that is standalone with easy to guarantee kills, is S tier compared to anything that only works in certain setups

[Killerdog]

@Kirisune

To my understanding, KD’s version is based on ‘how well it does in a vacuum’.

The first post of this thread details a lot of what goes into the ranking of them. For the purposes of this comment I’ve quoted, nothing is done in absolutes so “in a vacuum” is absolutely not how it’s done. However, monsters that require a specific setup or are niche will rank lower. I try to balance a monster’s potential with how realistic it is to have and pull off. Ultimately it’s a kind of “let’s factor everything in and try not to put too much value on any one thing so we have a broader and more overall perspective”.

Everyone has very different perspectives on how these things should be done. What I’m going for is kind of a middle ground between those perspectives, and what I think makes the tier list most useful.

I know that Coltraz prefers to look at monsters in their ideal scenario and that’s how he has intended to grade them in his tier list.

[lebowquade]

Question:

Why is medbie in tier 3 for mythic awakening? Unless I’m missing something, as a 6★ she has everything except for overconfident strike (vs confident strike), and her SS, an extra use of Full House, and a full heal on entry instead of a partial one.

Granted, her SS is a guaranteed 4 kills (but realistically only against a link FL) and overconfident strike is more effect against buffed monsters in PvE. But the self-healing bun mechanic is still fully functional… before being awakened she pretty much just seems like a much better version of shurikaizer/prismaryx.

Being able to full heal → overconfident strike does a lot more damage, but I don’t totally agree that as a 6★ she’s “no good in the second form or lacking so much compared to the final form”. Having used both forms, I would argue that at least for PvE she should be tier 2, if not tier 1. For PvP probably tier 2, but tier 3 feels a bit harsh.

[Killerdog]

Sorry for the late reply. Thanks for pointing it out. It’s been tier 3 since the initial release, where it was much worse. Tier 2 seems more appropriate now