We literally spoke about this together. Poison chomp does 5k damage to a full defence monster so itâs only things with buffed defence or the tankiest mythics which are HP boosted who have a reasonable chance to not get one-shot.
@GodSlayer@Myst
Sorry I wasnât around to answer, but basically auto-poison all is a pretty big upgrade over auto-poison because it effectively gives all incoming teammates sleep immunity as well as a few specific monsters gaining benefit from being poisoned (e.g. the most recent mythic Risu).
Put simply, Rosegeist should get very easy 130TU kills on every turn, killing whatever it likes and around protectors while also countering all HG/stealth/shields in the enemy team, setting up poison teammates and making your incoming teammates immune to sleep. Itâs also got reasonable speed, a decent SS for giving you some control and mutual inversion can deal with defence buffed enemies or some revenges (flip and let them die to poison). The only downsides of it are the first turn doesnât make a huge impact and itâs a bit squishy. However, compared to other sweepers (especially at legendary) it is much more effective, has more synergy and has more utility.
I donât know if I want my Risu to come poisoned. On top of it, that would be even worse combo since her ss is very strong and is a sleep one.
Many players are reluctant to use Rosegeist in any setup. I maybe seen it once in high pvp tiers and that should tell you that it is nowhere to being an S+ legendary.
Swap its placement with Cyclophina and we are good.
If we compare Scorpio,gazer( poision theme mons) itâs nowhere near. Ig even Scorpio is not s+ anymore,so rose is nowhere close to s+. Even in early game it dies easily and for old players most of wonât use it. Itâs a mid tier mons. You guys are overrating!
Her SS is a one-time use sleep. Either have it turned off or use it on a poison immune / purify enemy.
Just because something is unpopular doesnât mean itâs not strong. You surely know that better than most! Poison has gone out of the meta for a long time besides end-games.
I can tell you havenât gone to read my earlier posts about Rosegeist vs Scorpiogeist. Itâs clearly way stronger except in the end-game.
Iâm speaking mostly for myself. I donât know many who have said anything positive about it lol. The two people I know have been very high on it are two people who own and use it. I think itâs currently the most underrated monster and people need to stop disregarding it, especially when they donât own it and havenât seen it.
Ah no need to apologise, I know you got a job so itâs difficult to give time to this, I just thought though poison counters sleep, rose would be lower cause it doesnât allow you to play stealth, shield setups, removes hg from your team and makes confident attacks futile while other s+ monsters can do well without caring what your existing setup is.(So sheâs still good but maybe not s+ level).Regardless youâve more experience than me lol, so maybe Iâm just overrating shielding and stealth a bit.
Think about how much poison annoys the monsters you want to use, then imagine that for your opponent who has not prepared for their team to be poisoned. So many monsters require building around and it takes effort, but here itâs much less effort to pull off. Thereâs enough monsters that arenât affected poorly by poison, but enough that are so the poison on the enemy team will be powerful. I can understand your hesitation with auto-poison all, but I promise you itâs a stronger version of auto-poison.
I remember a fight where my rosegeist had 5 eliminations including a harleking booster, he ravaged his team with the help of a crimseas for bloodcrave spam. I came across this guy again and this also stupidly targeted Natur because he was 7* he targeted Rose because he was the most dangerous and this time I lost because I managed his harleking (it was me who gave him bronzeshells with motor each time lol)
The komainu duo should be both lowered to S- in PVP,theyâre very easy to counter if you have scarleguard,shiny cyclozar or even shiny spectrefox and archaeopteron with you.
Archeopteron should be raised to S- in PVP,Nightwatch is a huge improvement over the 2 hit 200 tu move and is much less punishing against skips,and can counter thlug frontlines pretty well if thereâs the fire one with it.
Maeve should raise back up to C in PVE and maybe S- in PVP,the 6 new flutterdrakes (mainly oak,mint,and ash) have assisted her into becoming a bigger pain to deal with,less than 70 TU knockback that requires more than just one specific monster is not a joke. (That is unless arbustodon or mantiferno crash it.)
G.F. Gloria is now much better with the buffs she got for 3 of her skills,revenge sealer is incredible against almost every monster with a revenge passive,vigor floral morph is a decent disruption move that got the tu it needed,and removing 100 tu wait to floral curse is insane and could possibly make her halfway decent in PVE
in PVE Iâd rank her around D - C
in PVP Iâd rank her in B
Same thing with gloria,Xanacorn also got better,but nowhere near to the extent gloria did,95% speed is great and stun pulse becoming the regular one makes it a little more viable outside of link storm,idk what to make up of it but maybe low S- in PVE and low A in PVP?
Gets shotted by Megalo with 3 of your teammates being storm, and old link stun pulse was better bcz of the 30tu since you will always play him in a link storm.
Iâm running him right now and he is a bit complicated to play since the stun nerf.
I would say heâs low B or C tier.
I have a random question, because I feel I am missing something â
For PVP, why is Spikiestornado (which relies on the presence of multiple other spikie mons in order to do literally anything) ranked at S-, while Spikiestorrant (who has the combo of nullifying strike + bloodfury) ranked at A? Even Spikestone (who has every single knockback skill at once) seems more useful than tornado?
Sure tornado has the advantage of speedy moves, but none of the spikie mons are stellar and having two of them at once being a requirement for doing anything seems like it would make him⌠well, bad.
Yeah I have no clue why Xanacorn got changed in the update, itâs a weird nerf.
It sounds like youâre rating this mainly on it vs SEs? It simply isnât damaging enough with nightwatch I think and the moveset is still a bit too unreliable.
All of these counters you mention are typically played in the early-game. I reckon the dogs should be played at the back of the team or the mid-game, where their entrances can potentially turn the tide. Versus legendaries they offer a lot more than most SEs do.
Thanks for the input though. Gloria will definitely get a re-evaluation since the buff in the latest update.
Itâs true the storm one requires at least one other hedgehog to do anything, but that just makes it a bit awkward to place in the tier list. I decided to place it based on the power level of what it offers in the teams you make with it (which is obviously with another hedgehog). Thatâs typically the high speed 50TU knocking back, but Iâve seen people use it with the others too.
To give a more detailed explanationâŚ
Iâve got it written in the notes in the first post of this thread, but generally speaking for the monsters that want to be paired/grouped I place them so their average is what the power level of the group is when combined. E.g. If the Komainu duo were âS-â when used together but one was the stronger of the two I might put them in S and A tiers.
I believe this better showcases which one(s) of the pair/group make it strong/function. However, this means the best one may be artificially inflated and the worst one deflated. I make the assessment at the time of how I want to do them because for some it doesnât make sense to do it this way, but thatâs what youâre seeing with Spikiestornado since itâs reflecting more like the peak performance of what it enables rather than putting it lower because it requires the combo and then putting the others higher because they get carried by Spikiestornado.
Also, bear in mind that nullifying strike is not a particularly strong move. Most people know it from F.D. Maeve, who has boosted stats, or Sturgeonidas, who has boosted stats and a secret 1.5x bonus damage with all attacks. G.F. Gloria had attack boost+ to try and make it viable but even that needed a buff in the recent update because it wasnât good enough
I just noticed something. Beetlebrute have similar power like shikaboom, what u think If he S+ tier (pvp). He is support in any team (FL, mid or endgame). U donât even need heavy insect team. His suport its also easy to get.
I suppose this method is required to accurately rank, say, the flutterdrakes or the abyssoldiers. Team monsters need to be ranked assuming theyâre being used as such, makes sense to me.
Itâs had something like 3 buffs since release and bug union has seen a lot more support (Mantisamurai, Maeve getting a lot more flutters, Onyxia defence buff). I play with Beetlebrute a lot and love the survivor bane move, but I think it does still require some bugs around before you can place it in a team. The comparison to Shikabloom is a very good one, theyâre very similar movesets and both tanky. Itâs an S+ in my eyes but itâs also the kind of moveset Iâm bias towards so have been trying not to let that skew my judgement. I think the Shika comparison is enough justification for it though, thanks.
