Ah yes, the nostalgia glasses of the dozen or so top 1 finishes various players have had with scorpiogeist. Thatâs obviously carried by deathgazer, but youâd be hard pressed to find any good rosegeist team that doesnât also have gazer so same thing. You also shouldnât underestimate the difference between 60% and 49% speed when both die so easily.
Rosegeist mustâve slipped under my radar because of it being slow, easy to kill, and having relatively low impact when it gets turns. Iâm not sure what happened to your standards for 2023 legendary sweepers, but having venom chrono killer with standard attack and a single target poison chomp as first sweeping options is terrible, at least when weâre concerned about S and S+ tier.
It can also deal good damage to all four and chain kills if thereâs stun. Rosegeistâs comeback potential is a fraction of what scorp can do. Even though it has more hp and standard attack, itâs still ridiculously easy to kill if thatâs ever a priority. Scorpiogeist being more frail and weak to chrono killer more than justifies having a first turn impact thatâs magnitudes above what rosegeist can offer.
Should that really knock it down so much when almost everyone uses scorpiogeist in the endgame? I honestly donât even know if 1% of the times I see scorp nowadays are when itâs outside the endgame. Take centaureon for example. Itâs only S+ tier in the endgame but thatâs not enough reason to lower it to S tier.
Really? You wonât even be able to charge double bloodcrave against defense buffs when your options are venom chrono killer and poison chomp. You have low tu sweeping that does medium damage or 110tu sweeping that probably doesnât deal that good damage either. When I think of S+ tier sweeping for legendaries, I imagine high damage sweeping for multiple targets or a single target thatâs spammable. Swift terrorize is awesome tho.
Edit: Oh yeah rosegeist is also stunnable so you need to have stun prot in order to not lose control sometimes. Thatâs not disqualifying for S+ tier, but it certainly doesnât look good when its competition is something you use for stun prot and to brutalize your opponent when you get control.
A seems kinda low. I would mention that while cent is a hard counter to scorp, itâs still a soft counter to rosegeist because of the stun and purify.
She is better than scorpio in only one aspect that scorpio is weak to cent and rose isnât. Otherwise comparing rosegeist with scorpio doesnât make sense. Rose is A maybe.
I mean this as kindly as possible, but why do you guys care so much about the tier list getting updated? It doesnât affect your ability to use the monsters in any way!
Well, the tier list does give us which mons are mostly used, and whatâs the best mons to use.
But, in my opinion⌠It depends on what strategies theyâre using.
I saw that Ankoudragon didnât even get in the A/S list for legendary mons⌠But, my team is wrecked to the root because of that annoying Guardian Execute/Bloodcrave.
And Tenebris, I was surprised it didnât get into A/S lists⌠They can be dangerous if combined with some reviving moves, maybe.
In the first post, KD explain how he rates the mons, and furthermore he add âThe following may not be true for all monsters.â
I love Scolopendragon, even when he was first introduced and rated a D/E. Then he was given Unmovable and bumped all the way to S/S-. Which is a massive bump!
⌠But still nobody uses him as far as I can tell. Maybe Iâm wrong but I never see him played, neither PvP or PvE. So despite him being high in the list in both categories, he is rarely used. I see e.g. Wraithost or Lionheart 10x more.
So, it isnât universal. And they still havenât touched the design for Carmilla, so âoverusedâ or "overpoweredâ does not guarantee a rework. (Which is fine because I love Carmilla.)
Scolopendragon is a gimmick monster and a one trick pony. Itâs not consistent enough for high level PvP. In PvE itâs much better because playing AI is not the same as playing a real player. Is it really in S- tier for PvP? I would put it in B tier. Just because itâs really bad if it canât get a kill on first turn.
Lionheart is good only in lower tiers of PvP. Itâs practically shut down with one poison touch. Wraithhost is more useful because it has entrance control, however itâs also countered hard by poison.
And about Carmilla, she will always be at high risk for a nerf.
I appreciate the long post and I expected no less with how you view the two monsters. However, I wanted to quote this bit to be clear⌠Rosegeist is absolutely not a comeback monster and I didnât try to say as such. Itâs a more generic poison sweeper, one for early-mid game that does well because of its flexibility. It reliably gets kills and auto-poison for your team makes all the sweeping more deadly. Scorpiogeist is for poison end-games, thatâs where it shines and in that role it clearly does better than Rosegeist.
Just to be clear, I 100% do not put a monster higher or lower due to how much it gets used. I also tend to not factor in what the meta is (e.g. if a monster counters the current meta it doesnât get placed higher) except if itâs a general trend in whatâs going on (e.g. letâs say protectors are a big part of the meta and thereâs no indication thatâs going to change, counters to them will be rated higher). Thatâs one of the places where I differ a lot to the community. I try to make it a timeless list of how good the monsters are overall. Inevitably that means there are a few outliers of unplayed monsters being high and popular monsters being low.
Scolopendragon got two buffs: unmovable and piercing on the reptile killer move. Both helped it a lot, but what made me come around on the design is I realised there are many ways to set it up: lifeflip enemy, HG enemies and token disruption. If you put a bit of that in your team to set up Scolopen then it happens like maybe 3/4 of the time in PvP. Iâve used it a bunch and itâs very good!
You can further build around it with OoO or any of the usual support pieces like protectors or a single give turn after the initial kill will often guarantee you doing the whole chain.
I donât recommend it for the front line, but for the early game itâs easy to set up with any of the above mentioned things. My personal setup was bug union. In that you have Mantisamurai OoO, Lunactia enemy substitute and Arachnadiva scapegoat (either to pull attacks away from it, or force attacks into its immobile carapace as it repeatedly heals).
My point is, this list has absolutely no bearing on anything. It doesnât make mons any better or worse than they currently are. Voidress doesnât get better just because KD moves it up the list.
Iâd love to see people be a little more self reliant when it comes to monster evaluating. If you really want a monster to be viewed as good/bad, put it in your team and dominate/suck with it! That will put people on notice. This thread does nothing for your in game experience
I saw people using Charyb multiple times in the PvP.
I thought this list were also covered some monsters who are popular to use as META. My bad, I apologize for my mistake.
People have this weird misconception that if something is very popular then it must be very good/better than something else. It can be but it doesnât mean you should forget about critical thinking and having your own opinions. I always cringe when someone says âeveryone thinks xâ or ânobody does xâ, itâs such a bad foundation for an argument. What matters is how you argue your point of view.
Short answer: because itâs too niche. S+ monsters usually do many things very well. Or one thing better than any other monster in the game.
For your first doubt, it does instantly summons 5 bronzeshells in his first turn. It doesnât seems impactful until he kills u r first mons. Then u will find when he start to sweep making ur team full of bronze shells + vines or any other token.
For ur last doubt, he is the best among all the token mons in terms of token spam and disturbance. People keep jackolene in higher tier which is absolutely wrong in my view. She often gets dw and without motor she is totally useless in PvP unless things line up for u.
Charybdia is extremely strong. She was also meta warping on release. Sometimes the two go hand in hand! Other times you get things like Bastia who is crazily strong but you have to build your team in a certain way so she does see some play but is never super popular.
Iâve been very skeptical of Motordragon for a long time, but in recent years Iâve come to respect it some more. Itâs always been good, but not insane. Iâve ended up with both it and Jackolene in A tier. Theyâre good choices for token disruption and itâs a valid strategy but thatâs about it (in my opinion).
There are some I think should be higher but Iâm 
And Y Ddraig Goch because itâs Welsh 