Oh yes, Exocross is definitely a S+ monster in PvE, without a shadow of a doubt imo. All of its moves are useful and its only weakness is the speed, which imo is necessary because it would be OP as hell without that. Awakening it was one of the best decisions Iāve made in Neo, it really carried me through Hell Mode. I also happen to have Novemdomina awakened and paired with elem accelerate and elem give turn, Exocross is almost unstoppable!
In PvP itās not as good because people will have time to dispatch it before it starts sweeping with cornered exterminate. Or they remove enough marks so you canāt use it. In PvP itās well balanced imo.
The issue I have with Sakura is it relies very heavily on teammates sleeping enemies. You usually want to leave them sleeping, but with Sakura you need to kill two so you can start actually sweeping. Before that point all it really does is sleep a single enemy (double repulse doesnāt matter much in PvE except for things like making protectors dead weight). Overall, itās brilliant in a team built around it and when it works out but Momo is a clear winner in my eyes with its 7k piercing sweeping every turn, tankier stats, lifeflip enemy and self healing. It even has a lower TU repulse. Itās basically Sakura but better and easier to play in every way.
Donāt get me wrong, in hell mode and UC the low TU guaranteed kills is lovely. Accelerated it can chomp through a team beautifully. My issue with it is for general purpose itās not convenient to keep 3 monsters marked. I find it tends to get a few kills then I need to pull it back or switch to double bloodlust. I think whatās very valuable is when you can get something going then it continually sweep.
You brought up Kirina and Gorgodrakeā¦
Kirina is able to skip turn to easily stay alive, plus has easy one-shots every 51TU including a 12k piercing attack. Thatās easily better than Exocross in my opinion.
Gorgodrake is the controversial choice, but the versatility of killing two or one each turn is what makes this good. All you need is auto-poison and it sweeps faster than anything else.
If youāre thinking in the context of hell mode and UC then the guaranteed kills of Exocross obviously matter more, but I tend to think more like Showdown Tower for the PvE buff level. Sakura and Exocross both in S tier pays them a lot of respect, while the S+ are a little easier to run / get prolonged value from on the battlefield.
I think a better comparison to Exocross is Goliatherion. Thatās also in S tier and itās clearly better in my opinion. Far tankier, can continually sweep and has pure cure for when that matters. The only reason I have it in S tier is for the team building requirements. Also, S+ tier would be too crowded.
This is the kind of thing that gets brought up a lot to me. Basically, slayerbane and retribution moves are not suitable moves for PvE. You donāt want to build your team to trade back and forth. Instead, itās far more rewarding to build your team to control the enemies or otherwise get in a position where youāre clearing through them and not losing any of your own monsters (low TU sweeper set up and/or dead weight enemies left alive).
So Hazuki works fine, but often gets turns where it canāt do anything. It can usually get a slayerbreak kill on entry then sit there until something else dies before becoming a 160TU piercing sweeperā¦ nice but nothing special.
Don Rilla on the other hand can always do critical damage and has repent for a very quick heal to teammates. The SS gives it some extra staying power but the really big thing is the OoO synergy where it can either be used FL or actually the best setup is to have some kind of mid-game OoO where it does repent to wake up the teammates. That said, it being in S- is a relic of the past so thanks for pointing that out. Iāll move it down lower. I just detailed it to illustrate how it is well suited to PvE by design, even though the damage two-shots against buffed enemies.
Thanks a lot for the post. Do my words convince you these are fine in S tier or do you feel differently?
Harleking should be S+ in PvE and S in PvP. Junk Destruction is so awesome even when you use it in 5th (PvE). He kills anything even in hell mode chapter 8. He is very powerful the only thing holding him back is that although he kills well and also kills easily. And in PvP itās certainly the best endgame monster. All top 10 players use it
I understand the Sakura discussion but while Momo may be bulkier, it doesnāt heal as easily as you say because of how many good holy monsters we have for PvE. Angel, Auror, Brynhildr, etc block Guardian Morph. And 136TU isnāt low. I think all pf those provide more value than Momo in general. And speaking of killing, Sakura doesnāt necessarily need to get Double BT charged always. A timely Double Repulse and Dreamcrush can help too, of course Momo is better as a sweeper no doubt. But it offers more support than Momo I feel.
Iām however not convinced of the Exocross one. You say Kirina has survivability but without Shivadragon its a bit weird to run. While 51 TU may be a small time window, its extremely frail and it being killed off in 2 hits wonāt be surprising.(You may often have to skip turns to survive) Desperate Chomp and True Hit are probably the only good moves. Bloodfury starts kiling after several kills.
Exo is way tankier, just a little bit slower(8 Tu) . I should have also mentioned that Poison Immunity and half Stun Protection are more useful than they look. Yes it needs a bit of support to be perfect but who doesnāt? If I pair some support with Exo and it wins me games then whats the problem? Kirina without Shiva/Ap can be killed easily. Gorgo doesnāt even deal enough damage. Goliatheron is good but without lower star monsters in your team its somewhat dead weight.
While Rilla may have crit hit always it wonāt kill anything. Thats the difference between it and Hazuki. Hazuki will kill most of the time, especially if the foe is already damaged. And as I said, donāt ignore the extra life. Itāll sit without doing anything after a Slayerbreak you say? What are the odds that the buffed enemies wonāt kill any of your allies within that 110 Tu? Also its bulkier.
Speaking of OoO, I think Onyxia offers more.
But S+ being too crowded is definitely not a valid point.
I know Iāve been very critical of Harleking in recent years. I put it super high on release then dropped it over time as the low dual slayerbane damage became a more prominent issue. Now it has piercing thatās a game changer, especially for PvE.
I donāt want to rush to bumping it up a long way but this has inspired me to try it out from friends sharing it. Are you able to friend me and share it? My friend code is 37155021
I see youāre saying this all in the context of hell mode / UC. You make very valid points with regards to that, itās just not what Iām rating them on in the tier list. I agree with your evaluations based on that setting, except I think youāre missing out on Goliatherion.
@Mr.X Thanks for the input. Iāll review all those. Just a reminder that the tier list here isnāt meant to shift things based on the current meta.
Sorry there is confusion. I donāt have harleking myself I only share Charybdia and tyrfina on my accounts. Everything I told you was supported by the fact that I have 4 friends who have it and it has always been very good. if thatās not a problem for you I can still send the friend request
Iām not sure about 1 because lately Iāve been having a ton of success with bloom. A lot of that is because of the support it has from better mons tho.
2-4 and 7-8 are good.
For 6, I think youāll find cetaskagon to be a lot weaker once poison gets off the restriction list.
No opinion on 5.
@Killerdog also novemdomina should always be higher than botan by a tier or two. There isnāt a single competent link fire user that would choose botan over novem if they could only pick one.
1-Disagree, may not always kill but its tanky and Water Canon is an underrated move
2- B might be too low, I think A/S- is fine considering it still is a Stun Counter
3- Play him with Novem and other poisons and youāll know
4-Completely agree, barely provides control, is forced to attack with Timestrike and the damage sucks, only Timeās Up is good but even then Dolph is better.
5- Agreed
6- Good stun protection especially if ignored but as Duck said is ruined by poison and damage on Catapult sucks
7-Agreed, it has actually helped me to win battles with a good Dreamy Entrance, damage is great, easily kills Def Myths when at full Hp
8- Not good enough for S-
I feel Kattmander should be in S
Isnāt all give turn units and bastia super slow? This character will break the game and I donāt think people are complaining enough (I donāt mind it. I like seeing broken units)
