I think Hanzo should be downgraded to S. The passive is excellent, but the solo requirement really hinders his cloning, he isnāt very useful without the passive, and many new monsters with True Hit, payback killer and Void moves have come out since.
Definitely donāt do this, really bad advice! 9 times out of 10 nebel will be the better pick. And Hanzo is a better pick than Nebel because itās more reliable.
Sanct was ānerfedā with the stun mechanic rework and wonāt provide much value on its own. Its best use is probably to charge Bloodbath with Voidress.
Are we talking PvP or PvE? Iāve had better results with Sanctallion in PvE personally. Either way, I still think the current best deal in the shop is that Oakthulu for 6 tickets.
As someone who sprang for his SS, I can confirm. I have since just turned it off.
I had a neat combo with Prismaryx for a while: he uses stunt double, which charges retribution and slayerbane for a few kills, then a second time gives me a token to bring back the last mon I killed with the previous combo. It was neat but that was literally the only time it has come in handy.
A good rule of thumb is donāt use your tickets on anything that doesnāt say āShop Exclusiveā. If itās not Shop Exclusive, itās in the normal egg/rare egg pool and you will get it soon enough anyways. If I could tell ppl the number of times I tried different accounts and seen people get something from the shop, super excited, only to get a copy of it when they try to hatch for something new so those tickets were wasted. Tragic.
Have you played with Sanctallion after the stun nerf? The problem with it is that it usually canāt kill stuff on its own and gives turns to enemy stun converters/counters.
Anyway Hanzo usually turns 2-3 enemy monsters into rocks which you can use to stall or charge your own monsters. It also kills anything so itās way more valuable.
I have. Itās true that he canāt really kill on his own, but heās a very effective shield-granting machine in addition to the stuns. I use him in combo with another Mon w/ purifying mist, giving the whole team constant shield+stealth. Occasionally more effective than having an actual protector, and a good way to protect all the glass cannons with RAW skills.
Nebelronix is a good shield granter, but a terrible protector, so his protect skill makes him incompatible with RAW attacks, making him unusable with Padrinorca, Angelion, Mantiferno, etc. itās a big list.
At least with Nebel you have the death revenge, itās supposed to blood clone, then protect, then die and kill an opponent at the same time. Sanctallion can be a liability due to the stun revenge and you really need to have some sort of backstab so you donāt end up with more than one of them on the field.
Yeah in PvP itās a massive liability, but for PvE Iāve never had the ai smart enough to keep the sanct clones on the field to box out my attackers.
I think we can both agree that if you have Hanzo thereās no reason to also have/use Nebelronixā¦ Hanzo is just a substantially improved version of the same concept.
I donāt quite agree with that. I just think that spending 12 tickets to buy Hanzo from the shop is a much wiser choice than buying Nebel for 6 tickets.
There are situations where Nebel is better than Hanzo because it can clone even when another Nebel is on the field. The top UC strategy used to be sleep lock + āinfiniteā Nebel cloning using switch friend, something that you canāt do with Hanzo.
A great question, especially with the comparison to Nebelronix. The two are super similar: they clone and protect then kill an enemy when they die. However, there are a few significant differences which others touched upon a bit but Iāll dive in a bit deeper. Just for the record, I am on the fence a bit whether Hanzo should move down to S tier now the rocks die after 200s. It was originally possible to rocklock the enemy team and Hanzo could win the battle literally by itself, which is what put it in S+. After the nerf I went into āwait and seeāā¦ and itās definitely a lot weaker. Iāll probably drop it next update.
Blood clone next vs blood clone:
Hanzowolf wins here because getting to chain them together while in the middle of a battle is far easier to build around plus itās easier to force the value because you have more going on in your team for the enemies to target. These monsters need time to do the clone + protect so when youāre down to the final monsters if you have 2-3 on the battlefield theyāre simply going to get targeted sooner. Just imagine Nebelronix with blood clone next for a secondā¦ wouldnāt it work brilliantly the way how each one dying would shield the next, when you also have things like a give turn, other protectors or sweepers who are able to keep going the whole time while you loop Nebels to protect+shield them.
Petrify revenge vs Death revenge:
This is a major upgrade, particularly in PvE. In PvP, payback revenge < death revenge because it gives the opponent the choice of what to kill it with (e.g. a shielded monster), it also kills something that just took a turn (i.e. is out of play) whereas DR could mean they lose something that was about to get a crucial turn. Iād say payback revenge is literally half as good as DR in PvP. However, petrify revenge is similar power to DR because not only does the kill become guaranteed, it also slows their team temporarily as they only have 3 real monsters (although you need to have a use for that rock otherwise you āwasteā an attack killing it - which is why Iād say itās similar power rather than better).
Going back to PvEā¦
Here itās far more about holding control and killing particular monsters while keeping others alive. For that reason, payback revenge > death revenge, especially when itās on a protector. The AI is not smart enough to target them with a shielded monster, so you basically take out a sweeper (more likely to be the target you want) and you can time the protect to force a certain enemy to kill it. The only issue is multiple payback revenge monsters will not work well because they might kill the same monster.
Also, petrify revenge has huge upsides. Itās a guaranteed kill, it slows the enemy team (important when youāre playing for control, also helps give the next Hanzo more time) and the really big one in PvE is it can set up various monsters who need a kill but have a hard time doing it normally. The best example of this is Scolopendragon but there are plenty, especially if you look at SEs.
So when you combine the fact itās got the best DR-style passive for PvE, it clones next in line to enable all the synergy + easy to support with GT, other protectors and the stealth on entry supports the next Hanzo AND it fits with a lot of very strong PvE strategies that makes it miles better than things like Nebelronix who, in practice, are a fairly slow way to get 1-2 kills + shield your team.
P.S. Thanks for getting me to check Hanzowolfās monster analysis again and I realise it doesnāt cover using the rocks for charging blood moves.
Thanks for the in depth answer! I definitely feel like I understand using him much more now, was only seeing him as a method to spam raw bloodfury but i totally forgot about SEs that generally have a hard time killing off buffed monsters.
Also, can you let me know where is the monster analysis for it? I had checked it before asking the question but I saw a placeholder in itās monster index range.
Monster analysis is in the game, in the monsterdex. The forum version is where I first started, then it became a real thing in the game and I havenāt properly updated the forum version. Someday I hope to get through all the monsters and to have the forum be in-sync too, but I doubt Iāll ever actually get there (too many other things I want to do and itās very time-consuming). Just ignore the one on the forum and check out the monsterdex.
Hereās the updated Hanzowolf analysis that will come in the game at some point in the next few months:
This monster is all about petrify revenge, repeatedly slowing down the enemy team with rockoids while killing them.
Typically the move order is solo blood clone next, protect teammates then assassinate on any additional turns it gets. Getting extra copies of Hanzowolf in your team is the top priority. The next Hanzowolf cannot clone when the current one is still alive but protect teammates and stealthy entrance should help them die in order so you can get additional clones. You may need to skip turns with the new Hanzowolf to line up solo blood clone next for when the older Hanzowolf dies.
Each time a Hanzowolf dies, one of the four enemies becomes a rockoid for 200s. By giving the enemy team a useless monster temporarily it makes the next Hanzowolf easier to set up. You can ignore it with monsters that can bypass protectors, use it for assassinate or even better is getting a kill on a blood sweeper that struggles to get the first kill (e.g. Scolopendragon [#2246]). Ultimately, petrify revenge is like payback revenge with these upsides, but if you have to waste an attack removing the rockoid each time then itās actually not as good.
Hanzowolf benefits from any revival moves, like all death revenge and cloning monsters. Give turn also helps keep the chain going.
In a different thread, @PurpleHeart and @LemonSqueezy were discussing (well, lemon was denying) about how lemon might be a secret dev. I said that KD had a higher chance of being one. Now I believe that all the moreā¦
Lol the difference between me and KD, is that Iām just an active forum member, whereas he is far more involved in the game; he is a moderator in the forum and he writes the analysis in game too. I donāt do any of that lol.
Oh Iāll make sure to read there first the next time i have a doubt about a monster. Also, correct me if I understood it wrong, but do you write the in game analysis of monsters too? If yes, thatās freaking crazy