A mathematician's view on the Goldtail-nerf

Neo Monsters
1

Hi Ladies and Gents,

most of you probably do not know me since I’m a f2p-Player who most enjoys the PvE-side of Neo Monsters.

I think the nerfs are discussed intensively already, but I have the feeling mainly from the PvP-side of Neo Monsters. I have to admit, that the changes to Dusc are understandable to me. Before, you could have put Dusc pretty much anywhere in your lineup and it was great. Now it became situational.
Flacco is a tricky one, since it is and always was shop exclusive and you do not even get the total investment back. But on the otherside, I think it is still valuable to the team, and who would give back any of their beloved monsters anyways.

For me, the Goldtail-nerf is the most surprising one, and honestly the hardest nerf for me personally (consiering all nerf in the last 3 years), being a Goldtail-fanboy for years now.

Allow me to explain why:

With this nerf, for me a whole playstyle is dead. [MATH WARNING] You can compute the average time to sleep a monster by the seconds of the skill divided by the probabilty (geometric distribution). So before, goldtail required on average 42 / .75 = 56 seconds (without additional support) to sleep a monster. Which is much better than the 59 / .6 = 98 seconds for the “normal” sleep legends (shadow and storm). Now, THE sleep monsters of all time has a average time to sleep of 85 / .75 = 113 seconds, so the “weaker” sleepers are even better now.

So now you cold ask: Why is this so important?!

Because there are many strategies (especially for the extreme hard versions of PvE events), that heavily relied on the sleep lock to charge other monsters, such as pola or leo - leo much more than pola. Especially when the other monsters have 20k+ health.

But you could ask again: Why is this so important?!

Because this was by far the most reliable strategy, and basically all players had access to it (at latest after one year of playtime, which you need anyways to really have a chance in the harder PvE parts)! Many people said, sleeping was RNG. This is correct. But are the other strats less RNG? Definitely not. In my opinion, Necro + Auro with Death Revenge Clones and Magga (limited monster!) are now the most reliable strat since sleeping is out of the picture. And this is a pure RNG-festival. You cannot control, which monster you remove first, and since 2 days of testing I either stomped challenges having 12+ of the buffed monsters reanimated on my side, or get crushed really hard with the same strategy and decision making and level of challenge (Ultimate Challenge Level 350+).

So my suggestion to the devs: When you change values, ask a mathematician first! I would have offered a helping hand! :wink: If you want to make Gold different, make it 100% sleep (like the green fluffer) and 70 seconds (the name potent sleep would still make sense, and the different move pool and no passive abilities would justify the better sleep than storm or shadow). And having so many sleep immune / Isomnia monsters around, It didn’t become easier to execute the sleeping strat anyways.

If you are still reading, thanks for the attention and happy to discuss!

Best
K

8 Likes
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Potent sleep was always a stronger sleep move. It should stay that way I think. 50TU was absolutely silly but taking it up to 100TU is too high, as pointed out above with the maths.

80TU potent sleep hits the right middle ground I think. By numbers it is better for sleeping but the negative is it costs a little bit more TU.

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Thanks for the heads up I didn’t read the math.
So 100% sleep for 70 tu is pretty broken.I think 100tu for 100% is better to not make many fuss about it especially in PvP considering it’ll be pretty much a s+ with 100% sleep only with 70tu.

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Both comments make sense, I just observed one potential source of misunderstanding: All my numbers are for +9, so my 70 Secs are 85 without pots. So we are all fairly close together! :wink:

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Remember that his low speed compensated his low TU. Goldtail was balanced. Getting sleep locked with him in PVP required a very elaborated strategy and luck. Of course the biggest hit was taken by pve teams

3 Likes
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70 secs sounds fair, considering that by category a mythic (Lemon) should have a better version of the skill (potent sleep 50 TU).
100 TU on a 75% success chances skill is excessive and completely kills the monster. I bet by now a lot of players have already exchanged the monster and the ones who haven’t done it yet, are players like you, who love the monster and “hope” things get better for him. But in both cases, I’m sure no one will use Goldtail again in PVP or pve. Using a poisoned pandamonium is 100 times better and easier, and does not depend on luck.

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It was for goldtail but it still is for lemon, if the TU of the powerful sleep was taken to 100, what the hell does lemon do even with 50 you in the same ability

1 Like
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I agree that 100 seconds potent sleep is too much. I guess they needed to make Lemon better than Goldtail in every way especially as it is a shop monster. But maybe now Goldtail will finally get a passive? :thinking:

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They just want people to stop using goldtail so people can use lemons SOLO potent sleep

6 Likes
10

Seems legends with skills that rival those of mythics shall seize to exit.

2 Likes
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Exist*

1 Like
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Thank you thy did not see thy mistake

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Toxic Presence got nerfed right along Toxic Entrance, so you need Toxic Give Turn now, meaning an extra monster and chrono weakness. Frankly I don’t know how much better that would be.

Sleep in PvP is going to do great after this update, but it’ll come from OoO, Lemon, entrances and revenges.

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Didn’t think of that. Didn’t remember the toxic entrance nerf.

I’d use Nagandia too though

15

you ‘can’ also use kunomi ‘awkaned’ if you ‘have’ it

1 Like