I’ll start saying i’m f2p like you (well not totally to be honest. Bought 13 gems for second 10x1 this Christmas. I won’t do it anymore). btw pvp is totally different from first release of Aegis. atm zephy won’t survive fl and a knock back strategy in FL would totally be wrecked. To kill aegis you should run at least shadow and galvbane or chicken. Let’s say that all the players have shadow (i don’t have him) but after killing aegis what are you supposed to do? Aegis is a protector. His job is protect. You lose two turns to kill him and those monsters aegis wanted to protect are still there ready to kick your ■■■. First thing opponent would do after your two turns is kill chicken. Let’s say we remove roaring entrance from tiger and bring his speed to 99 and we put the tiger in 5th spot. Tiger would enter after TT (leg one not zephy or alhpa) and would be already dead before make a move. I can continue putting 99 speed tiger in FL removing roaring but i’ll just tell the result. You killed aegis and TT thanks to tiger (let’s say again all players have tiger) and chicken or tiger and what else. After those two kills opponent will take the lead and the flow and stun you to hell or sleeplock you (in the current pvp it’s how it works, well you know that). Nerf tiger means remove roaring entrance or nerf/remove assassinate. If you do this you’ll meet aegis FL that will wreck you cause you’ll need to be fast to not get wrecked but you can only faster and being this fast you’ll get wrecked. Roaring entrance and the existence of tiger in general is what prevent pvp to be this way. I’ll say again. Nerf Tiger means buff Aegis (and in current pvp Aegis would be stronger then the Aegis without assassinate we saw before) and bring back the game totally to a FL matter.
I’m trying to explain what i want to say, i don’t want to be arrogant. I could be totally wrong
There are several ways of dealing with Aegis. It is an annoying monster, but stunnable, susceptible to sleep, poison and chrono killer
By your logic, every monster coming in 5th should have Roaring Entrance. And the 6th. And the 7th. See where this is going? I find Roaring entrance just about acceptable on Sear because he is a free monster, otherwise it is an unnecessary skill in my opinion.
If Icefang was the only way of dealing with Aegis, I would not beat any team running him as atm I don’t have Icefang and am not using Robinator.
Using Aegis as an excuse to Icefang is not a strong enough argument with all due respect.
You didn’t get what i said. It’s his existence that prevent people from running certain type of FL, not having him or not. Aegis in FL isn’t stunnable cause of absorbers and Leo. If you stun him with stun pulse (let’s say no leo or absorber and that the rest of the fl is stun immune), you didn’t do anything. His work is to protect. He’s protectiong. It’s other monsters job to be sweepers. Not being able to sweep doesn’t mean that a monster can’t be OP. Just think at leg TTurners. They doesn’t sweep but you know how strong they are right?
You said “By your logic, every monster coming in 5th should have Roaring Entrance.”. I’ll ask you. What people runs atm as 5th? I just meet Sear, Icefang, motor, shinobi. It’s not my logic. It’s the way current pvp is.
If you can counter Aegis in ways i don’t know, please tell me. I’m here to discuss and learn from other people ideas
Did you live through the aegispocalypse? Believe me when I say that it used to be a case of you couldn’t win if you didn’t have it.
The problem was not that it could be dealt with, it was that it took half your front line to do so and there was no way of getting to the stuff it was protecting. Even if it died to a frontline DESIGNED TO COUNTER IT it still worked. You can stun it to high heaven but you won’t get past it.
I agree that icefang feels excessively powerful but that’s cause of the timestrike/stun pulse imo rather than the assassinate
You bring up good points, but you’re mistaking me completely. I’m not saying to nerf assassinate. I’m pretty sure icefang can’t kill mecha with assassinate, so you can’t kill the TT (very few top players put lava in FL when they have mech). icefang also can’t kill zephy with assassinate (death chicken can). I’m really confused why you have to aim at the TT? If you did increase the speed to 99 (and then kill whatever the problem - aka whatever you would kill if it came in with roaring entrance, then I don’t see the problem; however, I don’t think increasing the speed to 99 while removing roaring entrance is the answer personally). Also, I think that I deal with stun by being a stunner myself, and I deal with sleep teams with either stun or shadowyrm. I don’t think icefang needs to be the stop for it, so even with icefang, that happens anyway. And then you have protectors, stun absorbers, sleepers yourself, banedragon, etc, so I think we shouldn’t move to the argument that it would be over in the case you’re suggesting.
I think we could easily resolve this by understanding that assassinate was what prevented Aegis from continuing so much in FL - aka death chicken did this not icefang. I don’t want to nerf assassinate , I want to nerf icetiger. I think Buck’s point is where I’m heading at. Stun pulse and timestrike is what makes it hard to deal with for me. I think roaring entrance, assassinate, and maybe bloodfury would make it easily worth legendary without being oppressive because of it’s versatility.
Also thanks for telling me about rexkong, but how does that stop a mech, leo, deo, aegis FL. Rex can’t hit deo, deo quick charges and kills rex, leo uses AoE, and then we hope stun isn’t what comes in next otherwise Leo gets another AoE hit, and then mech pulls everything in with TT.
For Rexkong i was just saying. I don’t like 1 sec charge too. Don’t know what devs were thinking
The 99 speed was an example to explain that remove roaring entrance isn’t a solution. I wasn’t saying that assassinate can oneshot mecha. I was just saying that if you lose your turns killing Aegis you’ll pretty much give the lead to opponent. I put there TT (let’s say mecha) to explain that you can kill aegis and Mecha too but after your effort in killing them you’ll get wrecked. For zephy i just said that he won’t survive fl so i don’t get how you use him to deal with aegis. Knock back? Yes but that won’t work anymore because in current pvp he won’t survive till his turn (if you put him in FL). And i didn’t say that icefang is what stops stun. Icefang (with robinator and assassinate in general) is what stops aegis unbreakable FLs.
In general i think that bloodfury would make him more oppressive if he kills a monster. With bloodcrave he is gone after three kills. Stun pulse/timestrike is what make him useful when there aren’t protectors. He should wait to be killed when protectors aren’t there? (actually that happens when leo is on the ground)
Here’s the thing. Take away timestrike and you’re left with something that is very punishing towards protectors but nowhere near as good in the absence of them. Right now you don’t think before putting it in simply because it’s that good, it’s basically a free kill nearly every time and then a possibility to sweep further. I think it should have one or the other, but not both. Specialise in assassination or be a timestriker.
I think now we are getting somewhere. I get your point with the timestrike and I agree with it. So if Roaring Entrance stays, then stun pulse should go - or timestrike altogether for that matter.
ahh I see, okay, thanks I understand your point better. Yea me neither
With regards to assassinate, I’m not suggesting remove assassinate. I want icefang to keep assassinate/ and probably roaring entrance. I just want to tweak two of it’s other moves. Either way, assassinate hurts aegis and possible kills something else as long as it’s not mech or a strong thunder type like zephy or cybereon. I understand that removing assassinate will make Aegis very powerful which is why I don’t think we should remove assassinate (in that sense I have been agreeing with you the whole time).
However, I’m thinking the same as Buck, in that we should make icefang specialize more rather than just be guaranteed a few kills no matter where we put most of the time. Force it to focus on assassinate/roaring entrance, and lose the stun pulse and timestrike. I only suggested bloodfury because if we remove stun pulse and timestrike, maybe bloodfury would maintain the balance but of course, I would be happy with bloodcrave as well (probably more happy with that since I don’t have it). As long as we don’t change the stats and keep it as a water monster and not give it stun immune, it has some weaknesses we could exploit.
Also, you’re right, Zephy doesn’t survive FL anymore; however that being said, Icefang isn’t able to get rid of mech. Icefang and death chicken do remove the other monsters with assassinate, which is why I want to keep assassinate.
Then the question would be: what else would we give it as a replacement?
Then maybe give it a protector killer that ignores hold ground. That way you could choose between killing off a protector in one hit or killing off something else.
