# The state of the game (PvP)
**URL:** https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123
**Category:** Neo Monsters
**Created:** [December 24, 2022, 1:38pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123 "2022-12-24T13:38:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@LemonSqueezy](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/LemonSqueezy)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 1:38pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/1 "2022-12-24T13:38:15Z")
Hey everyone. I just wanted to chat about the state of the game from a PvP perspective. Specifically Frontlines and Endgames.
A few years ago we were deep in an AP spam meta, which for me personally was the most mind numbing meta ever. The devs responded with True Hit, the Raw upgrade and focus. Since then we’ve seen a lot of monsters released with one of these moves, at high speed in the frontline.
Titan
Sui Jag combo
Orca
Nikki
Maeve
The list goes on…
This makes it quite difficult for FL combos now as it doesn’t feel like there is anywhere to hide. The monsters and moves listed above can usually kill any monster in the FL regardless of protection.
This essentially results in the need for speed. Don’t get me wrong, speed has always been important, but now it’s almost critical. We see full aggression, high speed front lines where almost any 4 monsters can work, such Bundam Katt Orca etc. Either that or we see high speed stun immune spam FLs without any weakness.
The question is, will we ever get back to a point where FL combos and monsters that depend on one another can exist in FLs and be viable high level without needing to be stupidly fast? Or is speed everything now?
I’m not so sure. Interested to hear other people’s thoughts though 😊
—————————————
Endgames
And as far as endgames go, the vast majority of them tend to have one of two formats,
Gazer usually with poison, or
The Big AoE! Moku, Peng etc.
There are obvious counters to this such as Camo spam, but do you think we could we ever get to a point where the endgame meta actually shifts from either of the above?
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### Author:  [@ItsSherlock](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/ItsSherlock)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 2:07pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/2 "2022-12-24T14:07:05Z")
> [@LemonSqueezy](#):
>
> Sui Jag combo
> Orca
> Nikki
It’s funny how a simple Kanna disables all of protector counter ability of the ones mentioned above
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### Author:  [@INA-Archer](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/INA-Archer)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 2:08pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/3 "2022-12-24T14:08:10Z")
That meta FL exist bcoz AP spam lol.
> [@LemonSqueezy](#):
>
> Titan
> Sui Jag combo
> Orca
> Nikki
> Maeve
> The list goes on…
Idk how to counter without one of this.
My opinion most BROKEN meta is "Field spam " like Bastia sakuralisk Cynthia or kanna etc. They not even give us chance to comeback.
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### Author:  [@WRO\_Sir\_Lance\_III](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/WRO_Sir_Lance_III)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 2:17pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/4 "2022-12-24T14:17:17Z")
Are you sure maeve speed 60 is fast:rofl:🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 that was normal 🤣
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### Author:  [@LemonSqueezy](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/LemonSqueezy)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 2:22pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/5 "2022-12-24T14:22:48Z")
Yeah I know, but I thought I’d include her anyway 😊
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### Author:  [@LemonSqueezy](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/LemonSqueezy)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/6 "2022-12-24T14:30:05Z")
> [@INA-Archer](#):
>
> That meta FL exist bcoz AP spam lol.
No I don’t think it does. I think most of them are for speed, without relying on Killer moves.
I think speed FLs will rule for a long time
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### Author:  [@INA-Archer](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/INA-Archer)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 2:44pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/7 "2022-12-24T14:44:23Z")
> [@LemonSqueezy](#):
>
> The question is, will we ever get back to a point where FL combos and monsters that depend on one another can exist in FLs and be viable high level without needing to be stupidly fast? Or is speed everything now?
Okay .The answer is yet it can I am sure ,u know. but need more budget like Awakened myth or another S + legend /myth monster. One example is sakuralisk FL from KS f2p and new Balancion combo.
And yes Speed is important (speed skill and speed from stats ) bcoz that We need grind potion right.
> [@LemonSqueezy](#):
>
> Titan
> Sui Jag combo
> Orca
> Nikki
> Maeve
> The list goes on…
>
> This makes it quite difficult for FL
But this is really personal problem
@Dev_VKC We need Void guardian executed and Void true hit
I am glad one of them is medium high speed FL .not very fast combo like Old charge/ Rhino canish /retribution single stun revenge /
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### Author:  [@LemonSqueezy](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/LemonSqueezy)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/8 "2022-12-24T16:07:03Z")
> [@INA-Archer](#):
>
> But this is really personal problem
It’s not a personal problem for me. I am perfectly capable of creating FLs 😅 my point was just that I can’t see the game being able to move away from high speed FLs now.
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### Author:  [@Aeronomatron](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Aeronomatron)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/9 "2022-12-24T16:13:05Z")
Honestly I think the HP boosts will somewhat fix that issue, making the fast one shots not consistently one shot everything. Hence why I’m looking forward to it coming into play
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### Author:  [@PurpleHeart](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/PurpleHeart)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/10 "2022-12-24T16:43:18Z")
> [@LemonSqueezy](#):
>
> Gazer usually with poison, or
> The Big AoE! Moku, Peng etc.
Stun into power sweepers\*
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### Author:  [@NMEduck](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/NMEduck)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 5:12pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/12 "2022-12-24T17:12:58Z")
This says a lot about society.
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### Author:  [@INA-Archer](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/INA-Archer)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 5:15pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/13 "2022-12-24T17:15:09Z")
> [@LemonSqueezy](#):
>
> The question is, will we ever get back to a point where FL combos and monsters that depend on one another can exist in FLs and be viable high level without needing to be stupidly fast? Or is speed everything now?
> [@LemonSqueezy](#):
>
> my point was just that I can’t see the game being able to move away from high speed FLs now.
Lol, then why u ask question. When u know about this.
I am still in my opinion we can move away from high speed FL but we need another high budget stuff . “we can call it S+ spam and Awakened myth”
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### Author:  [@LemonSqueezy](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/LemonSqueezy)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 5:21pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/14 "2022-12-24T17:21:04Z")
> [@INA-Archer](#):
>
> Lol, then why u ask question.
Because I’m interested in other peoples opinion? I don’t always believe mine is right? Because I actually wanted to start a discussion rather than comment on nerf and buff threads like everyone else lol. Any of the above.
Interested in other people’s takes on the matter. Funny how that’s so hard for people to believe.
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### Author:  [@LemonSqueezy](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/LemonSqueezy)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 5:24pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/15 "2022-12-24T17:24:39Z")
Great point! Thank you!!
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### Author:  [@DonT89](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/DonT89)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/16 "2022-12-24T17:25:34Z")
@LemonSqueezy depends a lot on what you mean FL strategies, because last thing I remember game shifted to this to nerf those strategies which were absolutely nuts considering they could kill the whole FL without the opponent having time of reaction.
Having fast single kill moves is imo, much more better than having a strategy that literally destroys half of your team in less than a blink of an eye.
The game right now is balanced, single monsters need constant buffing/nerfing to keep it balanced.
Entrances are getting out of hand, that need a serious twitch, but so far so good Imo, PvP is a much more enjoyable place now.
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### Author:  [@LemonSqueezy](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/LemonSqueezy)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/17 "2022-12-24T17:29:34Z")
> [@DonT89](#):
>
> depends a lot on what you mean FL strategies
I guess what I mean is that right now, it’s all about having the fastest FL that can kill without reliance on enemy weaknesses and given that now anything can be hit no matter how well it’s protected, I don’t know if we will ever escape the speed meta for FLs. Whereas before slower mons had a good chance of surviving.
> [@DonT89](#):
>
> Entrances are getting out of hand
Tranquil nerf was a step in the right direction! 😊 Devs should have really included dual dragoon though
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### Author:  [@NMEduck](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/NMEduck)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/18 "2022-12-24T17:42:32Z")
> [@LemonSqueezy](#):
>
> Tranquil nerf was a step in the right direction! 😊 Devs should have really included dual dragoon though
I think dualdragoon is fine. Unlike the legendary tranquilizers, its only purpose is disruption (plus killing orca) so let it be the only mon that can stun for 80 secs and sleep a target on entrance.
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### Author:  [@LemonSqueezy](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/LemonSqueezy)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/19 "2022-12-24T17:53:51Z")
It’s not as bad. I think we’ll just see it more in place of the others.
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### Author:  [@Aeronomatron](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Aeronomatron)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/20 "2022-12-24T18:18:57Z")
It’s all the people that are against it are complaining about 😂 “my one shot fast units won’t kill literally everything anymore”
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### Author:  [@kabylian](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/kabylian)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/the-state-of-the-game-pvp/42123/21 "2022-12-24T19:17:59Z")
Damn i wanted to be the one taking that ,but only 3 were available playing at that time
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