True the pirate double sleep its 100 sec for a 50% chance to put one to sleep on helmo its 130sec with 60% chance to put both to sleep thats the same as doing single sleep twice with bonus
Helmo can havoid stealth on the good side
But yeah i understand what you mean
Ok, so Iām gonna do another theoretical analysis like I did a while ago, the subjects being the newest festival monsters (Zeuswyrm/Centaureon) and the UC monster, Tezcatlipoca. Like before, this is just my subjective opinion, and not fact so letās get this show on the road.
Iāl begin with Tezcatlipoca; itās a rather interesting case to be honest. The idea of a monster that can pull off several Stun/Sleep/Twin-Bombs sounds rather OP; in fact I can see several stun teams running this little fella. However the fact that itās speed is low, coupled by the fact that it has to use Reckless Attack at least once before it can go boom, makes the thing easier to deal with, despite itās respectable defenses. Poison All Revenge can be a mixed blessing; it can help you set up your poison monsters, or set up the opponents monsters. Overall I can see it being used in a few stun teams as a possible replacement for the epic Stun Bombers; after all a single Stun Bomb can win the game. Iāll rate it a solid B; not the best out there, but still a recommendable choice.
Our next subject is Centaureon; a monster that probably gives good Olā Goldtail a few nightmares. Iāll start by stating the obvious; Champion Entrance is utterly insane. Oh Iām not complaining, about it being OP, but the fact that its very presence can give the player an extra couple of turns is nothing to sneeze at, with Shield Entrance being a nice little cherry on top. Now letās get to itās usable skills; Instant Purify is a neat little toy that can help you out in a few cases, more so with itās already powerful entrance passives. Nightwatch is essentially Assassinate, but for monsters with sleep skills and given how several sleep orientated monsters are Water type (Polareon, Wraithcaptain etc:) it should be able to get some easy kills. Counter Strike will be the more commonly used offensive skill, which would enable it to sit back on Raw Bloodcrave until itās time is up. Overall, Centaureon is what I like to call a ātoolboxā monster; itās got skills to cover plenty of situations, and finds itself welcome in a lot of teams. Iāll rate it a B+, verging closely on an A-; its toolbox nature makes it usable in plenty of teams, but not on a team with a specific goal.
And then there is Zeuswyrm, a monster that Iām proud to say I own. Iāll start by say that if the tier list was based off of monster design alone, it would get a S+ immediately. Itās one of the best looking monsters to date, if I have to be brutally honest. But the looks arenāt the only reason why this fellaās a winner. The moment it enterās the field, an opponents monster gets stunned for 200sec, enabling it to start sweeping with Timestrike Double. At first I was a little disappointing that Lightning Entrance only targeted one monster, but then I realized how broken that sounded, especially since itās packing Exit Plan as well, enabling it to stun multiple monsters throughout the battle. Stun Bomb Curse is an insanely powerful move, enabling the death of any troublesome Stun Absorbers/Counters while punishing the other monsters by stunning them for a long time. Once it gets a kill or two, it can wreck lives with Raw Bloodfury, while benefiting from some Stun Immunity as well; rather fitting for what Iād consider the new āKing of Stunā. And to top things off, itās secret skill Roar stuns everyone on the field except itself, though Iām a little confused on why you would want to stun your own monsters. Overall, Zeuswyrm works brilliantly in a stun team, though itās not as splashable as the Shocking Entrance monsters. Iād rate it a solid A; once it gets going, you know youāre in for a bad time.
So thatās the end of my second analysis; If thereās any issues you have with it, then feel free to point it out as Iām willing to have a debate about my stance on these monsters.
roar stun is op when you have stun counters and converters on battlefield.
Id like to point out that stun bomb curse isnt insanely poweful.
Great summary and thanks for the input on this thread! I canāt confirm yet whether your ratings will translate into the same tier on this thread because I am typically trying to keep things rated lower than most would to keep the monsters spread out over the tiers. However, weāre in the same line of thinking.
Tezcatlipoca:
Bang on with what I was going to say. If you can do a stun beforehand then it can fit in nicely, otherwise it probably wonāt work against any decent PvP team or PvE monsters that will kill it quickly. Itās a nice addition to the game.
Centaureon:
Great summary. Only bits I want to point out / add are:
- Itās mainly a sleep counter (instantly break sleep lock + double sleep killer move)
- Nightwatch damage is not one-shot because itās not a fully aggressive monster, so it isnāt such a hard counter to sleep as it might seem. However, correct element for one-shotting water monsters which is the main sleep element!
- Assisted thunder the instant it enters the battlefield can be surprisingly useful at times
Zeuswyrm:
This one is quite complicated to explain but you got most of the stuff and I completely agree with the analysis. The extra notes here are:
- Lightning entrance (200s stun random monster) gets countered pretty hard by stun immune monsters and it relies on this for a kill. Thankfully exit plan can give it extra chances.
- Stun bomb curse is very hard to pull off without very careful setup, the reason being because if you want to be doing much with this monster you canāt have a protector out so it will simply die before the 300s passes. However, it fits into FL OoO strategies nicely, especially because Zeuswyrm is faster than all OoO monsters.
- The secret skill āroarā (stuns whole field by 100s, 50TU) is basically for combos with stun converter/counter monsters but can also work well if you have stun immune monsters or an absorber you donāt mind stunning. OR, see belowā¦
I think a lot of people will be harsh on Zeuswyrm because it often gets killed off very quickly in PvP. Typically you donāt have a protector out at the same time as it so thereās nothing stopping the opponent from targeting it. They WILL target it because itās got stun immunity and bloodfury plus a strong double sweeping move that can be used sometimes. Overall, this makes it appear like it doesnāt add much value to a team but it fits with the raw strategy overall where you have lots of fast sweepers that are annoying and all need killing. The speed Zeuswyrm gets a turn is ridiculous and he often sets up a double kill as he enters so you get some decent value. The secret skill is rarely used in PvP if you are going with a raw setup because people will kill Zeuswyrm before its second turn. However, it is possible to use Zeus with a protector and have roar as a way to set up a second timestrike double. With a protector out Zeus can probably survive until that second turn and by the time he gets a fourth turn (TSD -> roar -> TSD) then the protector should be dead.
There are many different ways to use Zeuswyrm and heās a great addition to many teams. The ONLY place where he doesnāt perform is in a meta with lots of stun immune/converter/counter monsters, which may be where PvP is heading right now.
Well I have abused roar on so many occasions, rare thing for me was Zeus got killed (I donāt want to brag or anything like that)
Zeus is probably A tier
He survived? What were you running him with that people would rather target? I was thinking more like A+ or S for PvPā¦ many seem to be rating him lower though. Before Zeus and Centaur came to the game everyone seemed to be screaming S+ for both, there seems to be a relapse from them being overhyped.
Ya. Granted i didnt have time to play much last pvp, but in the ~40 games i played centaur was essentially worthless and Zeus was very situational.
Yeah Iām not sure about Centaur being used in PvP other than when sleep comes back into the meta. For now heās just got the potential. Zeuswyrm was āsituationalā because he too frequently hit stun immune/converter/counter monsters or because you were rarely able to use him as a sweeper for more than the initial attack? I think Zeus might be hitting a bad meta for him right now since thereās been a lot of stun / anti-stun monsters becoming common.
Agreed. I dont have Zeus, but my FL is stun immune and i have stun protectors and leo through out. He was never a factor against me.
Centaur was similarly dead weight against me and even deader weight when I used him.
I ended up embracing the poison and abandoning sleep this tournament. Made for coin flip not fun matches (whos freezecobra went first) but it was the most certain way to go ad it trumped the other metas and my +9 cobra often got to go first.
The Freezecobra into bane 5 FL already killed sleep FLs so centaur 5 (where i originally envisioned him being most useful) is made obsolete by a more certain offensive strategy. You run centaur, youre only purifying away the sleep for 1 turn and using nightwatch to HG the 1-1 and damage a second monster- no kills cuz its an underpowered attack. But, if You embrace the poison and run bane 5 you have a chance at breaking sleep lock AND sweeping your opponents first 6, and you can still run a protector. Something centaur doesnāt permit.
Centaur sucks. Esp in a frostcobra AP/stunabsorbing world that mitigates his shield and his stunning entrance.
Again, getting leo 4th and gear 6th were great from this last festival, but i definitely got caught up in the hype of these monsters and if not for hatching those 2 would totally regret rolling.
Thanks, I have no idea what my phone did to my OP.
Thank you all for your thoughts and comments, it helped clear up a few areas I was unsure of, like the full potential of Roar.
I canāt disclose that
But 8 out of 10 times , I ended up using roar, even though it sometimes cost me the match but it was worth it
Zeus is situational I agree, same with centuareon , but cent is little worse than Zeus imo,
I was puzzled for a bit. Just came from the Frostmoroz post someone made in another thread and was reading here about Frostmoroz front line into Bane 5th being a good lineup. Took me a minute to realise you meant to be typing Freezecobra each time, so I saved the confusion for others!
So did you try Centaureon in many places other than 5th? Iām not a big fan of stunning entrance monsters in 5th position. Almost everyone has stun protection in their front line so youāre putting a lot of trust in your front line to remove their stun protection before any of yours die or get removed from the field! I reckon Centaureon is best placed either 6th-7th or after your mid-game section of slots ~6-9 in 10th or 11th. I guess the key bit about Centaureon is he wonāt play into a strategy you have very much, heās just a counter to things that may be there in the enemy team or a bad position your team is in (particularly sleep). Hence youāve got to slot him inbetween other groups of monsters rather than trying to play him in the middle and disrupting the flow of monsters you have. The stunning entrance wonāt generate enough value and building around his raw to plan for him to be sweeping might just leave that section of your team weaker as a result if he canāt get a kill, so you shouldnāt consider building around him.
I wonder if in the future when link storm is stronger we could use Centaureon in that team alongside a give turn monster. Then we could use assisted thunder to get a kill on entry and give turn straight into the 70TU sweeping. There he could be a lot more reliable.
P.S. (to everyone)
I was planning to do an update to this thread earlier today but didnāt find the time for it. Iāll get to it as soon as I can. Iāll add all the new monsters, change positions of monsters that were recently buffed and shuffle around a few others to compensate for movements. If thereās any particular monsters you want me to review their positions then let me know and Iāll give them some extra attention as I review the tiers.
Since the PVP rankings include combo valuations itād be nice to have the major combos listed as well. At least some of them. That way everyone can see if they need to apply personal adjustments to the rankings if they donāt have a key combo monster. Iām sure we as a community could crowdsource this as to not put too much on KDās plate.
That is a cool idea and unfortunately too complicated and time consuming for me to add. I think that would actually make a good guide threadā¦ āMonster Combo listā.
If people are up for it we can make it a thing. I can make the thread and then everyone can contribute monster combos they like which we add to the main list at the top? I think that would be fun and useful as long as people donāt get too carried away talking about how OP or weak certain combos are
Idk, talking about all the combos just gonna make alot of people copy alot of other people.
Yeah, the creativity disappears. Letās not do this
I had the same thought, hence thatās why didnāt posted any comment
Good points. Was only thinking combos that went into monster rankings, not FL combos/5-7/etc. But you have a point