You can say that about most monsters tho.
Leo for example is in the s rank, while without a proper setup he usually aint doing nothing. Another example (while looking at it from a different angel) is motor - alone he is amazing (2 shells just by entering), but with proper setup he is super duper amazing (thr ultimate stun lock). It just happens that zhu buddies arr all limited so thr setup is not common, but he is still an S rank for the abillity to create this insane setup (like motor). And also without them, maybe its less effective, but he can still do an amazing job. Like others said - zero risk for a jackpot.
for the same outcome you can backstab the snowman.
any link monster by himself is thrash, even without azra and tenebris he is strong ( for me that combo is S+)
it doesnāt actually need all 3 to be s rank
It has low tu high power and the most effective moves in the game tank stun absorption creation and stealth it can easily stall out a lead till it can strike thatās what makes it s
The combo makes it s+
Is there any plan to update this list now that PVP is over? No pressure, just been waiting for PVP to end so I can UE some mons based on updates that would be made.
Thanks (again: no pressure, I know everyoneās busy).
Itās in progress
Here are all the monsters I think should go up in rank, and by how many:
Dolphoenix 3
Definitely packs a much bigger punch now, just feels like a more immediate and legitimate threat.
Heavenswyrm 4
That link shield can be brutal especially at 82 speed, and itās perfect for waiting for the stun protection to disappear.
Mojinator 3
I think his problems are pretty well taken care of; the lower forms can off themselves whenever they want.
Oakthulhu 4
Siphon actually does fair damage, so heās definitely more of a threat.
Shurikaizer 1
This thing is a major nuisance. Hard to deal with, and can pick up kills seriously fast.
Midasdragon 2
Link TT? Seriously?
Geartyrant 2
Thereās no denying that gear has shown what he can do recently, and believe me, he can be nasty.
Ultimadragon 1
Mandatory bump due to getting that SS.
Wraithcaptain 2
Sleep double is RIDICULOUS.
Stormhunter 1
These two can win games by themselves. Not as efficient as tail, but harder to get rid of and even have a backup plan.
Bunkerbeast 3
Ugh, just meet this guy in a one on one front. Youāll see.
Deathgazer 2
The secret skill certainly helps, honestly he just deserves to be a little higher than this.
Nebel/Cosmo 3
Faster clones is a tremendous help. Still not top tier but an undeniable threat nonetheless.
Frostrider 1
This guy still does nasty stuff.
The fairies 5
Shockingly, these two are pretty effective now. 3 use Petal blitz is INSANE, plus they both have kill options.
Djinzar 1
Well heās slightly better, but not by much.
Viridizardon 3
Not exactly the change I had in mind, but even so retribution suits him far better.
Wolfrozor 6
At last 
heās basically a SE Polaboss, can be quite hard to get rid of. While he doesnāt hit very hard, he can come back almost immediately to hit again. I think Slayerbane may be what truly sold him, though.
Don Dollguini 3
Laxer link restriction is going to make this thing a serious headache.
Hereās who I think should go down:
Leogeist 2
Constantly has to fear for its life, and take a long time to get a streak going.
Tridrakhan 1
Shadowyrm just does the job better nowadays.
Kamiwyrm 1
Too hard to setup, totally inferior to Shadowyrm.
Metatherion 1
Very slow and quite easy to get rid of.
Albakhan 1
No tanks or stealth, and youāve got a very expensive and poisonous brick on your hands.
SE Team turn 1
So much easier to deal with than legends, and nowhere near the capitalizing power.
Torrentide 2
Wasnāt exactly supposed to be up at S in the first place lol. I think A is appropriate for him now though.
Balancion 1
Just doesnāt really do anything by itself without cannibalize.
Btw, is there any plan to revive the SE tier list? Itās fairly outdated and doesnāt seem to get movement very much.
Thatās a lot of proposed changes Lucrayzor! I just want to say that with the forum update weāre going to lose an posts being written from now until that update happensā¦ so hold back on the update to this tier list and Lucrayzor make sure you grab a copy of this post you just made because you definitely spent a while writing that!
Actually just thought of that, I might wait until the server move since I really donāt wanna spend another 2 hours writing the update up again if it gets deleted
Also tbh while Iām waiting for the move Iāll give the SE list a proper update, was going over it anyway with all the buffs.
What about Burnsalot? Now he has a new secret skill
So Buck, are planning to paste your recent list update over here, or should I go ahead and do it? Iāve got your post and updated OP ready if you want me to take care of it.
Tbh id be grateful if you could.
Also got my dissertation coming up hence the lack of updates after recent PvP events, once itās done and turned in it should be back to regular updates again (April 25th to be precise)
Tier list update 2/27:
Sheās a big one, so Iām probably going to end up spoilering this to save taking up half a page. Iāve also taken the liberty of going over the PvP SE list and just moving everything around based on the most recent meta, itās been pretty outdated for a while now. Obviously this is open to suggestions, and in the case of the SE list I encourage it since a lot of it is based off my experience of them (I donāt have a lot of data regarding most of them whereas people tend to chat about legends a lot).
Additions
Zhulong goes in at S+ for PvP and B+ for general, high reward for relatively low risk considering the strength of the options alongside it (notably Azrazel), however requires support to really achieve any meaningful damage.
Frostmoroz goes in at S for general and S+ for PvP, an incredibly strong support in the current meta and generally good at smoothing out wrinkles in any team.
Heavenshorn goes in at A+ for general and A for PvP, surprisingly easy to get going since protector conversion counts as one kill, however itās pretty fragile and relying on it as a sweeper is generally worse than most legendary sweepers that have more innate survivability or power. A good budget option though.
Sweetfeather goes in at S for general and A+ for PvP, with high damage, several guaranteed sleeps and a double kill move Sweetfeather has everything you could want from a sweeper. Sadly itās fragility and weakness to some very common monsters (especially delugazar and shadowyrm) prevent it being ranked higher.
Movements
Chromera moves down to S, as is often the case a lack of solid targets takes the sting out of our metal pupper.
Azrazel moves up to S+, not only does it provide a solid and safe start but after cannibalise it then threatens with double bloodcrave from the first 30s onwards.
Aurodragon moves down to A+, the meta is very fast at the moment and often Auro simply doesnāt have enough space to generate value.
Cyclozar moves down to A, being unable to one-shot key targets makes Cyclozar an increasingly risky choice, especially with the meta moving away from poison as of late.
Leogeist moves down to S, survivability is the most important factor of an absorber nowadays, and Leoās fragility means it often loses out to Emeraldont or even Bitterbeast, which are much harder to deal with.
Atrahasis moves down to A, faster meta has not favoured teams built around necromancy and Geomagnus simply outclasses him right now.
Delugazar moves up to S+, whereas most sweepers hit like a truck Delu hits like a small meteor. And after it has a few kills, something which is usually very easy, it hits like two small meteors.
Tenebris moves up to S, despite a relatively small change a combination of increased usability and synergy with zhulong sees it go up a tier.
Polaboss moves up to S, Penguiniās right hand man offers a lot of utility on very low cooldowns, on top of being a pain to deal with due to constantly healing.
Baublebasher moves up to S, shadow is a very valuable element right now and Bauble is providing an offensive filler in more and more front lines.
Bahamuzar moves down to B+, as we move away from poison Baha loses one of his strongest matchups. In addition getting him set up is harder than ever.
Solblaze moves up to A, despite still being hideously slow his SS does offer a huge amount of value, especially with Lunartic already slowing the playing field. Nevertheless it remains a risky strategy.
Bazilogon moves down to B. It simply never makes it to 400s.
Warca moves down to B, see above.
Dolphoenix moves up to S, the time of the meme legend has finally come. Not only is it an excellent stunner but it can happily circumvent most absorbers with double timestrike (or protect killer if youāre running low on rocks), all with low cooldowns. Almost like raizen 2.0.
Kamiwyrm moves down to B, it simply doesnāt counter what it should, and as a result sees almost no use outside of Deo lines currently.
Albakhan moves down to B, no targets makes him a very expensive brick.
Wraithcaptain moves up to A+, sleep double is really strong right now and heās also deceptively tanky.
Chronozeros moves up to A, please hold while i summon EVERYTHING.
Oakthulu moves up to B+, being able to actually kill things makes him infinitely more usable.
Geartyrant moves up to B+, double repulse helps him immensely and he can threaten relatively early without having to rely on his passive for kills constantly.
Mojinator moves up to A+, roaring on his babies removes his major weakness and considering the amount of sleep around right now heās a strong option currently.
Serapheon moves down to B+, the stun is not as valuable as it used to be and mojinator is outclassing it right now.
Solariel moves down to B+, see above.
Hellfox moves down to S, whilst still insanely valuable zib is filtering out of the front line and with it hellfox loses one of itās strongest combos.
Ultimadragon moves up to A+, cannibalise gets it going faster and it remains a pretty solid option.
Midasdragon moves up to A+, a more conditional version of itās former self and right now a little awkward to build around effectively. Still a high speed TT is not to be underestimated.
Bunkerbeast moves up to A, sleep is a thing right now, and where thereās sleep thereās bunker.
Cosmodragon moves up to C+, the faster duplicates have helped it be a little more active and it can often trade 2 for 1, which is never a bad thing.
Nebelronix moves up to C+, see above.
Heavenswyrm moves up to B, undeniably stronger but contests a spot that is frequented by delugazar, which heavily counters it right now. Still under different circumstances it can be a pesky monster to deal with.
Deathgazer moves up to B+, step back helps a lot and while it still suffers from the same problems it can lever more of an advantage when active, making the payoff worth it for the risk.
Tezcacoatl moves down to B, nobody ever uses it. Ever.
Team turn moves down to A+, after the TT they are dead weight and a lot more punishable than they used to be.
Rexkong moves down to S, not as many juicy targets nowadays and nobody is leaving monsters like delugazar unprotected. Still, he can pick up easy kills on the unprepared.
Galvbane moves up to S+, whilst Polaboss is slowly replacing him the original energiser bunny remains a top threat to set up delugazar or raizen (or even dolph).
Torrentide moves down to A, a little overestimated on release, although his recent buffs make him a real nuisance.
Steamhawk moves up to S+, not only does it give you a shell but it can bring the shell to half health with an uncharged bloodcrave, which is almost more annoying than motor. Almost.
Djinzar moves up to B+, still relatively awkward to use but once he gets going his damage and utility are exceptional for an SE.
Wolfrozor moves up to S, survivability with consistent and strong damage makes wolfy a suprisingly big threat.
Bullbrazen moves down to B+, less poison makes him a very mediocre protector.
Saberdragon moves up to A+, still a very niche pick but when he pays off he often pays off big. Either that or heās useless for half the match.
Nighthunter moves down to B, his legendary compatriot sees very little play and his use outside of that is heavily restricted.
Viridizardon moves up to S, very similar to Wolfrozor but with a better element.
Poison massacre moves down to C+, the damage is simply too low to risk using them more often than not.
Gnashjaw moves up to A+, catapult does an obscene amount of damage for an SE and takes a lot of people by surprise still.
Frostrider moves up to S, sleep is a thing and the original poster boy remains a solid choice for initiation.
Horrorclaw moves up to A, less poison makes our copycat (copylionā¦thing?) a lot happier.
Don Dollguini moves up to A+, the lower restrictions on link make him a lot more viable and a lot scarier as a result.
Protect teammates/Stun absorb moves up to S+, the go-to anti stun option for many teams, they remain some of the most used monsters in the game for a good reason.
Lordsreign moves down to S, the protector slot has some very good options right now and finding a reason to take lord over titanomoth or gearcroc (not even mentioning legendary options) is becoming harder and harder
Moltenpede moves down to C, it constantly has to play a game with health management and more often than not gets punished for it. Also itās damage is lacklustre.
Devilborg moves down to D, it takes too long to do anything and the payoff is very mediocre. With the amount of throw options currently devil is rarely considered.
Blossomight moves up to S, petal blitz feels like a legendary move and it provides damage, utility and survivability at the cost of relying on the two of them being together. The payoff is well worth the risk.
Sanguinymph moves up to A, the less powerful of the pair by far but no slouch when it comes to damage. Itās speed is a nice bonus.
Also I want to ask whether it is worth continuing the general list, since itās conception there have been a lot of new events and the monsters that are best for them vary considerably. As a result itās not as valuable as it once was.
If you think itās worth keeping and adding to, then say so. If you think it should go, then say so.
And as always, itās open to suggestions.
Also 10/10 stun immune pvp is best pvp.
Buck if you care you can go ahead and copy paste this and replace my post with yours, if you care.
Since itās been a couple of months since their release, where would you think Volcavenus and Freezecobra would go? I remember asking about it on the old forums, but back then it was too early to judge.
Iād put cobra at A-S for pvp while B in PVE
I wanna talk about volc if you mentioned it (for pvp).
Didnt see alot uses him, but im using him on a regular basis, so im know what im saying. Volc outclass vulc (the legend). Stay with me, the names are confusing, i know.
Both got double poison eater, 1 is a link move at 100 tu and the other 200tu without link. The link is worth building, double poison eater at 100 tu is just amazingly usefull, and the damage is almost the same as vulcās. Also, they have almost the same speed. So far volc (SE) is winning.
Let me just add the vulc is completly shut down by stag, while volc got a single poison eater in case he needs it (also elemental advantage on stag so its a 1 shot.
Also, stealth all / purify shut down vulc too. He can use 1 time poison all at 1 tu to counter lurify but thats it. His 70 tu double poison touch makes him kinda useless at this situations. Volc on the other hand got a 50 tu poison gas that can counter stealth and purfy, with still time to act with a 2nd move. Vulc (legend) does have bloodthirst, which is good, but takes time to charge. (First double attack is 200 tu yea? Plus with all those holdgrounds around, poison makes it hard to be charged).
On top of that, volc (se) got a nice passive - chance to AP. Vulc really has a problem, as he rely on other to poison for him (except the 1 time use SS). Volc with poison has and chance to AP always got targets that are poisoned.
And accalarate teamate on vulc? Its nice, but rarley used, as you usually want to go for the kill first. Doesnt help him alot.
My point - volc is an amazing SE, he outclass a legendary with a similar moveset imo. I would give him an A, as its still linked.
And on the same note - im starting to think vulc (the legendary) needs a passive.
I completely agree with you about Volca. Itās a beautiful SE that works very well if you can make a link fire team. I remember back in the stun immune PvP seeing quite a few people use both Volca and Keeperdragon. Both of them are very speedy sweepers and surprisingly strong for SEs. As we get more monsters which make link fire a viable option Iād say their rating of āAā might increase towards āSā.
Vulca (legend) suffers simply because he relies too much on double poison eater which is 200TU and he doesnāt offer enough support to your team like how Banedragon instantly poisons everyone or the normal AP legends which have their 160TU poison eater but have AP offering constant support. I donāt think Vulca is terrible by any means but heās probably not offering as much as he should be, as a legendary. Volca the SE goes to show that.
Freezecobra is absolutely monstrous! Iād make the case for him being S+ in both PvE and PvP. Auto poison all and stun absorb are incredibly strong passives which you can make use of easily. On top of that he has super high speed (87%) with poison gas so can immediately start supporting in the front line. His main use is alongside detox monsters with the poison gas but he can also be used effectively as an AP for poison eater teams. However, what really clinches the deal for me is the offensive capabilitiesā¦ detox strike is super powerful (stronger than Polabossā), poisoned burst is often strong and poison siphon does decent damage now. Thatās three different damage options which are all decent and ranging 100-130TU. Freezecobra is a strong monster by itself but has a huge number of combos you can form with it and has no awkward requirements like link, stun protection or protect teammates.
Is Shivadragon any good, I ultra evolved him and Iām unsure of how good he is/
Shiva is one of the best sweepers/support in the game.
Thanks for the quick reply, where should i put him in my team though.
he best around HG monsters and a protector. he can keep him alive and after a couple of attacks he can deal good damage at a low TU