# Canishogun CHANGE thread! **URL:** \ **Category:** Neo Monsters General Discussions\ **Created:** [May 28, 2020, 9:56am UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748 "2020-05-28T09:56:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![zazzaro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/zazzaro/32/21620_2.png) [@zazzaro](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/zazzaro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 9:56am UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/1 "2020-05-28T09:56:21Z")
Notice how I wrote “change” in the title instead of “nerf”? That means I am now an ally of the Canishogun community, and therefore have their sympathy. Great marketing, I know. Let’s get on topic: why do I have to hate Canishogun?! I love Canishogun! Underdog is such a cool ability with so much team building potential! I mean I once saw this guy with a Cani frontline featuring unevolved Freezecobra and unevolved Abyssrider. Does someone this daring really deserve to see his strategy nerfed? What’s the problem then?! AoE. Why did he have to be used for the most bland, boring and uninspired strategy possible?! Let’s change that, here’s what I think this good boy **REALLY** needs: - (nerf) Underdog cost increased by 2. No matter how cool Underdog turns out to be, as long as it’s somewhat viable, it can’t just allow this much free cost on the rest of the team. This needs to go for the same reason Mythics should cost 15: braindead teambuilding. - (nerf) Flameater changed to Counter Strike. This move never made sense to begin with, I always saw it as a way for the devs to “make everyone happy” when Cani was first nerfed. - (indirect nerf) Lower the damage of Assisted moves of 4s monsters similarly to Gorgodrake’s. Nobody uses these monsters outside of Canishogun’s AoE spam anyway, and we can do better. - (indirect buff) Allow us to de-evolve monsters at will in a similar way to secret skills. Now we’re talking! Think of the possibilities! Abyssoldiers and poison would be my first tests, but I doubt that surprises anyone. - (indirect buff) Buff some 4s forms of Super Epics. Remember that guy I was talking about with Freezecobra and Abyssrider? Turns out 4s Abyssrider doesn’t have Detox Blast. Yeah, I have no idea what he was thinking either. More importantly: what the point of Abyssraider without Detox Blast?! Fix it! - (change) Stun Converter changed to Samurai Protection (makes 4s monsters and the user Stun Immune as long as there’s a 4s monster on the field). At the end of the day weakness to stun is to be expected from 4s monsters. This should mitigate that with the help of some clever team building. I’ve hatched for poison monsters only for like a year now, and very few monsters could make me change my ways (like a legendary Abyssoldier), but make these changes and I’ll hatch enough eggs the next time Canishogun is featured to make the waifu monsters jealous. tl;dr: Nerf Canishogun and Assisted in 4s monsters, but buff some 4s form SEs and allow us to change back and forth at will. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_To\_Mojinator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/death_to_mojinator/32/20210_2.png) [@Death\_To\_Mojinator](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Death_To_Mojinator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 10:09am UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/2 "2020-05-28T10:09:32Z")
I think the first 2 might work with the nerf. The rest is extreme. I think u really really hate cani ---
**Author:** ![Death\_To\_Mojinator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/death_to_mojinator/32/20210_2.png) [@Death\_To\_Mojinator](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Death_To_Mojinator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 10:10am UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/3 "2020-05-28T10:10:10Z")
But…I am still with the #NoCaniNerf And u are no ally to the Cani Community. ---
**Author:** ![zazzaro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/zazzaro/32/21620_2.png) [@zazzaro](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/zazzaro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 10:21am UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/4 "2020-05-28T10:21:39Z")
Yes, that’s how I would change it if I only wanted to nerf him, but here I proposed buffs too. The assisted nerf is there to encourage more interesting team building, everything else is either a buff or a buff to his Underdog strategy at the expense of his 13 cost form. ---
**Author:** ![crazypary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/45deac/32.png) [@crazypary](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/crazypary)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 10:29am UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/5 "2020-05-28T10:29:59Z")
I see someone get burden because of cani team ---
**Author:** ![Lasercop](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/lasercop/32/22065_2.png) [@Lasercop](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Lasercop)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 10:35am UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/6 "2020-05-28T10:35:58Z")
unless you don’t use it properly ---
**Author:** ![Lasercop](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/lasercop/32/22065_2.png) [@Lasercop](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Lasercop)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 10:38am UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/7 "2020-05-28T10:38:48Z")
I can hear the opinions swirling… ---
**Author:** ![Tanbeer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/tanbeer/32/51776_2.png) [@Tanbeer](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Tanbeer)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 11:46am UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/8 "2020-05-28T11:46:31Z")
I think only Cani users should suggest the Nerfs This would be interesting If they don’t want nerf then make a special rule for rank No Cani :v ---
**Author:** ![NMEduck](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/nmeduck/32/32018_2.png) [@NMEduck](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/NMEduck)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 11:54am UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/9 "2020-05-28T11:54:29Z")
The cost increase Im fine with that makes sense. Also I highly recommend you don’t give him stun counter for samurai soul that would be OP. ---
**Author:** ![zazzaro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/zazzaro/32/21620_2.png) [@zazzaro](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/zazzaro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 11:57am UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/10 "2020-05-28T11:57:38Z")
I did nerf AoE, and with that change he risks not having anything if the 4s monsters get removed. I think it would work. EDIT: I changed it to give Stun Immunity without granting a turn, this should still accomplish my original goal without the risk of being too powerful. ---
**Author:** ![DonT89](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@DonT89](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/DonT89)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 12:23pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/11 "2020-05-28T12:23:46Z")
I am not entering anymore in Canis nerf discussions but one thing has to be said, is unbelievable how much bs I can read in this forum. And @zazzaro, Canis underdog is made for EPICS not for super epics unevolved, so the point of AR without Detox strike is easy: evolve it. ---
**Author:** ![NMEduck](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/nmeduck/32/32018_2.png) [@NMEduck](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/NMEduck)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 12:34pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/12 "2020-05-28T12:34:02Z")
I stopped taking this thread seriously after the stun counter suggestion that’s dolphin bond levels of craziness. ---
**Author:** ![Killerdog](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/killerdog/32/19206_2.png) [@Killerdog](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Killerdog)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 12:34pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/13 "2020-05-28T12:34:39Z")
> [@zazzaro](#): > > (nerf) Flameater changed to Counter Strike. This move never made sense to begin with, I always saw it as a way for the devs to “make everyone happy” when Cani was first nerfed. Canishogun is meant to be a very harsh counter to link fire, so nerfing it to counter strike is not going to happen. Flame Eater is perfect I think and the fact it can be used as an execute of sorts for non-fire monsters if they’re on low health is fine because the damage is low. > [@zazzaro](#): > > Turns out 4s Abyssrider doesn’t have Detox Blast. Yeah, I have no idea what he was thinking either. More importantly: what the point of Abyssraider without Detox Blast?! Fix it! It did have detox blast, but it was removed in a recent update for the sole reason of nerfing its use with Canishogun. Other 2nd form SEs have been nerfed for the same reason and there are a few more that really need it (not going to name them here though so people don’t abuse them). To be honest, your suggestions seem to push it towards using Canishogun with OP SEs in their second forms and away from using Cani with 0-4\* monsters. I feel like the whole point was to combine Cani with these 0-4\* monsters so it’s the wrong direction. ---
**Author:** ![zazzaro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/zazzaro/32/21620_2.png) [@zazzaro](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/zazzaro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 1:26pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/14 "2020-05-28T13:26:09Z")
> [@Killerdog](#): > > To be honest, your suggestions seem to push it towards using Canishogun with OP SEs in their second forms and away from using Cani with 0-4\* monsters. I feel like the whole point was to combine Cani with these 0-4\* monsters so it’s the wrong direction. Yeah, that’s the plan. Point is with epics the most you get is Assisted, with 4s SEs you can get something more interesting. If it’s too strong, nerf it. They are already doing it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![NMEduck](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/nmeduck/32/32018_2.png) [@NMEduck](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/NMEduck)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 1:27pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/15 "2020-05-28T13:27:52Z")
I’m fairly certain the devs had the fully evolved starters in mind when they released underdog but that’s fine I didn’t use super epics last season but I plan to this special pvp and maybe ranked if it works well but probably not. ---
**Author:** ![taigart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2acd7d/32.png) [@taigart](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/taigart)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/16 "2020-05-28T14:08:54Z")
> [@Killerdog](#): > > Canishogun is meant to be a very harsh counter to link fire, so nerfing it to counter strike is not going to happen. Flame Eater is perfect I think and the fact it can be used as an execute of sorts for non-fire monsters if they’re on low health is fine because the damage is low. I don’t understand why Canis has the ‘‘privilege’’ to Flame Eater with TU reduction and the others legenderies with counters don’t. This doesn’t make sense. I want Water Drinker, Salad Muncher, Earth Cruncher, Light Darker and Sacral Profaner! 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.X](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/mr.x/32/20447_2.png) [@Mr.X](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Mr.X)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/17 "2020-05-28T15:08:20Z")
Why nerf something when only three players know how to use it 🤥 ---
**Author:** ![DMGInterference](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/dmginterference/32/50532_2.png) [@DMGInterference](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/DMGInterference)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/18 "2020-05-28T15:42:03Z")
Good idea, but remember not to call the earth-effective move “Earth Eater” or “Ground Eater” because it’s an insult to people living in Southern Italy ---
**Author:** ![zazzaro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/zazzaro/32/21620_2.png) [@zazzaro](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/zazzaro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/19 "2020-05-28T16:32:57Z")
Yeah, tell 'em. ---
**Author:** ![ItsSherlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d6d6ee/32.png) [@ItsSherlock](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/ItsSherlock)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 5:26pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748/20 "2020-05-28T17:26:40Z")
Ahhh, a Canishogun thread, how refreshing [Next page](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/canishogun-change-thread/25748.md?page=2)