# Balance changes sorely needed **URL:** \ **Category:** Neo Monsters General Discussions\ **Created:** [December 12, 2016, 11:14pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835 "2016-12-12T23:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zardecil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/zardecil/32/7546_2.png) [@Zardecil](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Zardecil)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/41 "2016-12-13T20:51:54Z")
So you are saying: “leave the meta how it is with people being forced to pay out the nose for certain legends if they want to be remotely competitive”. Just because something is a certain way doesn’t mean it should stay that way. Have you actually read the thread and seen the arguments for nerfing them? Instead of saying that nothing should change why don’t you say why instead of just committing logical fallacies. ---
**Author:** ![JuLong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b77776/32.png) [@JuLong](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/JuLong)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/42 "2016-12-13T21:05:40Z")
> [@Zard](#): > > So you are saying: “leave the meta how it is with people being forced to pay out the nose for certain legends if they want to be remotely competitive”. Just because something is a certain way doesn’t mean it should stay that way. > > Have you actually read the thread and seen the arguments for nerfing them? Instead of saying that nothing should change why don’t you say why instead of just committing logical fallacies. Of course I read it. I still think people arguments are not really valid. Don’t think this game is anything other than a pay to win. Let’s get that straight first. If it wasn’t there wouldn’t be limited time only legends, and you wouldn’t have rarer than rare legends like aegis and Reva bird that are literally game breaking. These would be available at all times if it wasn’t a p2w game. Zib would be a really crapy monster without Dr being triggered. He would be worse than the holy one that comes in with rocker stuff. Devs should work on fixing bugs with the game instead of new monsters each weeks, and make old legends a little better. But if they nerf all the limited time legends you want, people will stop spending faster than they already are because people will be like we’ll shut how long til this new one isn’t what they said it is. The game will die faster that way. ---
**Author:** ![Zardecil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/zardecil/32/7546_2.png) [@Zardecil](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Zardecil)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/43 "2016-12-13T21:27:01Z")
I think that many people on the forum disagree with you on the p2w part. You can’t tell me that my several top 10 ratings at the end of several pvps mean that the game is p2w. In fact, there are a lot of people who play this game because it isn’t p2w. If the devs throw out game balance then they will lose players even faster then if they nerf legends to be at a reasonable power level. I know I play the game specifically because it ISN’T p2w. Zib would not be a bad monster if DR isn’t triggered any more. Cannibalize provides a ton of versatility that very few monsters can provide. That is why he is good. Not because his cannibalize triggers death revenge. The simple fact that he can bring in any sweeper in 5 right at the start of the fight means that he is very powerful already. The DR makes it so that the monster that would normally counter said strategy end up dying. That is why DR shouldn’t go off. The game has been around for over a year. Most games in the app store don’t take off in popularity until their second, or third. The game is admittedly not in the best place because the devs aren’t communicating with us, but that can definitely be fixed. The game is far from dying. Like I said, just because something is that way doesn’t mean it should be and that there aren’t better alternatives that can be done with a reasonable amount of resources. You tell me why ziberius would be worse then sanctallion without DR going off. You have only said that it will, but you have no argument to back it up. I feel like you are trying to get me to accept an arguement that has no ground to stand on by exaggerating your point. No developer can make a game without it’s playerbase finding some way to use something in in the way it wasn’t intended. Sometimes devs just screw up. This does not mean that it is okay for the devs to not fix said mistake. No one is perfect and that is the way it is and you can’t do anything about it but fix your mistakes. If a monster is overpowered then you will lose more of your playerbase by not fixing it then by fixing it. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Rctuga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/rctuga/32/56460_2.png) [@Rctuga](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Rctuga)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/44 "2016-12-13T21:42:48Z")
> [@Zard](#): > > I think that many people on the forum disagree with you on the p2w part. You can’t tell me that my several top 10 ratings at the end of several pvps mean that the game is p2w. In fact, there are a lot of people who play this game because it isn’t p2w. If the devs throw out game balance then they will lose players even faster then if they nerf legends to be at a reasonable power level. I know I play the game specifically because it ISN’T p2w. > Zib would not be a bad monster if DR isn’t triggered any more. Cannibalize provides a ton of versatility that very few monsters can provide. That is why he is good. Not because his cannibalize triggers death revenge. The simple fact that he can bring in any sweeper in 5 right at the start of the fight means that he is very powerful already. The DR makes it so that the monster that would normally counter said strategy end up dying. That is why DR shouldn’t go off. > The game has been around for over a year. Most games in the app store don’t take off in popularity until their second, or third. The game is admittedly not in the best place because the devs aren’t communicating with us, but that can definitely be fixed. The game is far from dying. > Like I said, just because something is that way doesn’t mean it should be and that there aren’t better alternatives that can be done with a reasonable amount of resources. > You tell me why ziberius would be worse then sanctallion without DR going off. You have only said that it will, but you have no argument to back it up. I feel like you are trying to get me to accept an arguement that has no ground to stand on by > exaggerating your point. > No developer can make a game without it’s playerbase finding some way to use something in in the way it wasn’t intended. Sometimes devs just screw up. This does not mean that it is okay for the devs to not fix said mistake. No one is perfect and that is the way it is and you can’t do anything about it but fix your mistakes. If a monster is overpowered then you will lose more of your playerbase by not fixing it then by fixing it. Simple as that. Totally agree ---
**Author:** ![Tyrone\_Hill](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/tyrone_hill/32/3478_2.png) [@Tyrone\_Hill](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Tyrone_Hill)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/45 "2016-12-13T22:12:45Z")
Zard is right. I have to back him up on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Zardecil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/zardecil/32/7546_2.png) [@Zardecil](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Zardecil)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/46 "2016-12-13T22:27:32Z")
What would you guys think about this: team turn can only be used when you are behind in monster count? ---
**Author:** ![GMagic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/gmagic/32/51920_2.png) [@GMagic](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/GMagic)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/47 "2016-12-13T22:44:48Z")
People would just run one or two less monsters in the beginning and use it the exact same way I think ---
**Author:** ![Lucrayzor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/lucrayzor/32/31298_2.png) [@Lucrayzor](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Lucrayzor)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/48 "2016-12-13T23:04:44Z")
> [@JuLong](#): > > Of course I read it. I still think people arguments are not really valid. Don’t think this game is anything other than a pay to win. Let’s get that straight first. If it wasn’t there wouldn’t be limited time only legends, and you wouldn’t have rarer than rare legends like aegis and Reva bird that are literally game breaking. These would be available at all times if it wasn’t a p2w game. Zib would be a really crapy monster without Dr being triggered. He would be worse than the holy one that comes in with rocker stuff. > Devs should work on fixing bugs with the game instead of new monsters each weeks, and make old legends a little better. > But if they nerf all the limited time legends you want, people will stop spending faster than they already are because people will be like we’ll shut how long til this new one isn’t what they said it is. The game will die faster that way. I’m afraid that you sorely misunderstand their reasoning behind the exclusive aspect. If every single monster was on the wheel, then all the heavy spenders will have pretty much all of the event ones in no time flat, and will seriously lose incentive to spend. Believe me, it would have no effect on the pay to win aspect whatsoever, it would only burn out people’s desire to spend more quickly. And once again, consider that the devs live off of this game. They need people to spend on it so that they can maintain it. It’s extremely hard to bring up this topic without always making them sound ultra greedy. At the slightest sign of possible greed, people like you just fill in the gaps and call the game a 100% pay to win scam, which is a very unreasonable and illogical judgement, especially when you look at this game side by side with certain other mobile games. But they need the money, it’s just the reality. They have to strike a constant balance between continually getting sufficient money out of their players, and giving their players something reasonable in return, which is far easier said than done I wager. Besides, you don’t necessarily have to spend in order to get event legends. It’s really not rare at all for people to simply get the monster with in game gems. Having it exclusive I think also enhances the sense of variety, since only certain people have the monster, reducing the chances of it swarming all over the meta. Our present problem would be 10 times worse, since significantly more people would have the monsters in question. There is a rhyme and reason, you just refuse to see it. And a side note, Zib’s cannibalize combo was never even meant to exist. And calling him worse than sanctallion without it is the most absurd exaggeration I’ve ever seen. I doubt anyone even knows what he would be like without it, since no one ever uses him for anything else. Who knows, maybe he’s got tons of other potential combos without the DR trigger, and no one bothers to even look for them. I know for a fact that he can still be an amazing addition if people would just use him the right way. In fact, seeing as people can still get immediate enterances with the move, it wouldn’t even really kill the cannibalize combo, just make it less oppressive, which sure sounds ideal to me. ---
**Author:** ![Heros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/heros/32/5651_2.png) [@Heros](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Heros)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/49 "2016-12-13T23:20:55Z")
> [@Zard](#): > > What would you guys think about this: team turn can only be used when you are behind in monster count? It may be better to give it a timer like deathgazer, but the tt has to be 250sec on the field…ok this makes no sense everybody would just run a one-on-one with a tt ---
**Author:** ![Zardecil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/zardecil/32/7546_2.png) [@Zardecil](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Zardecil)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/50 "2016-12-13T23:28:27Z")
Bane says hi. ---
**Author:** ![Rctuga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/rctuga/32/56460_2.png) [@Rctuga](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Rctuga)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/51 "2016-12-13T23:36:43Z")
Devs only care about money thats the reason they spam legendarys all over the place every mounth thats the trueth…they could listen us but they dont care the only thimg they need is bring a new legend and all rich boys will spend money to get it…why not stop lengend spam and consentrate on bugs, bring new events,new SE mons,even the dex would have a bonus for captures ex 100monsters 1fruit 200mons 1super fruit etc…its useless have +1000mons in game iff it doesnt reward us for capture than…thats probably off topic or wroung treath but i guess some people will agree with that ---
**Author:** ![Jackscale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Jackscale](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Jackscale)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/52 "2016-12-13T23:38:22Z")
> [@Heros](#): > > It may be better to give it a timer like deathgazer, but the tt has to be 250sec on the field…ok this makes no sense everybody would just run a one-on-one with a tt but that wud be a complete waste of a spot which would make tt a lot less of a threat. And besides…a limitation like that wud severely cripple them. Theyd be dead before 100 sec ---
**Author:** ![ewertonrodrigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6de8d8/32.png) [@ewertonrodrigo](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/ewertonrodrigo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/53 "2016-12-13T23:40:07Z")
> [@Lucrayzor](#): > > I’m afraid that you sorely misunderstand their reasoning behind the exclusive aspect. If every single monster was on the wheel, then all the heavy spenders will have pretty much all of the event ones in no time flat, and will seriously lose incentive to spend. Believe me, it would have no effect on the pay to win aspect whatsoever, it would only burn out people’s desire to spend more quickly. And once again, consider that the devs live off of this game. They need people to spend on it so that they can maintain it. It’s extremely hard to bring up this topic without always making them sound ultra greedy. At the slightest sign of possible greed, people like you just fill in the gaps and call the game a 100% pay to win scam, which is a very unreasonable and illogical judgement, especially when you look at this game side by side with certain other mobile games. But they need the money, it’s just the reality. They have to strike a constant balance between continually getting sufficient money out of their players, and giving their players something reasonable in return, which is far easier said than done I wager. Besides, you don’t necessarily have to spend in order to get event legends. It’s really not rare at all for people to simply get the monster with in game gems. Having it exclusive I think also enhances the sense of variety, since only certain people have the monster, reducing the chances of it swarming all over the meta. Our present problem would be 10 times worse, since significantly more people would have the monsters in question. There is a rhyme and reason, you just refuse to see it. > > And a side note, Zib’s cannibalize combo was never even meant to exist. And calling him worse than sanctallion without it is the most absurd exaggeration I’ve ever seen. I doubt anyone even knows what he would be like without it, since no one ever uses him for anything else. Who knows, maybe he’s got tons of other potential combos without the DR trigger, and no one bothers to even look for them. I know for a fact that he can still be an amazing addition if people would just use him the right way. In fact, seeing as people can still get immediate enterance, it wouldn’t even kill the cannibalize combo, just make it less oppressive, which sure sounds ideal to me. I’m a F2P player and I have 13 legendaries plus all the monsters given as event rewards since they started. All I ever paid was the £0.79 for the game itself. Me team is enough for top 50 on PVP but it sucks for Ultimate Challenge, but even when I had just one Legend (Omega) I was still able to obtain every relevant reward. That being said, the game does need balance. It makes it interesting that we have many diferent choices, so if we favor a few monsters the diversity won’t exist anymore. Maybe a few tweaks here and there can make older legends relevant again and introduce new strategies. I would love to see a PVP without TT and GT at all for a change, just to see if that would bring more creativity on players. ---
**Author:** ![Scottyftwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scottyftwk](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Scottyftwk)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/54 "2016-12-13T23:47:09Z")
It’s all about the first team turn. ---
**Author:** ![maxsee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/maxsee/32/15988_2.png) [@maxsee](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/maxsee)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/55 "2016-12-13T23:58:55Z")
Don’t think the developers will miss all the f2p players quitting…but i am sure the paying players will be sorely miss if they start  to quit… So nerfing any monsters further would be a very bad idea…End of the day, this game is able to survive till this day due to paying players definitely has nothing to do with f2p players…This is the reality of life…simply can’t survive on air and water… ---
**Author:** ![Zardecil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/zardecil/32/7546_2.png) [@Zardecil](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Zardecil)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/56 "2016-12-14T00:15:45Z")
You actually need the players that pay less/none as content for the paying players. If all the non-paying players quit the paying ones would soon follow as there wouldn’t be anyone for them to play against. ---
**Author:** ![Buckingham](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/www.neomonstersforum.com/buckingham/32/5780_2.png) [@Buckingham](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/u/Buckingham)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 12:27am UTC](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835/57 "2016-12-14T00:27:09Z")
> [@maxsee](#): > > Don’t think the developers will miss all the f2p players quitting…but i am sure the paying players will be sorely miss if they start to quit… So nerfing any monsters further would be a very bad idea…End of the day, this game is able to survive till this day due to paying players definitely has nothing to do with f2p players…This is the reality of life…simply can’t survive on air and water… Actually it’s a matter of numbers, to make a game successful you start by catering to the f2p playerbase. The paying ones come naturally after that. But anyway. This suddenly turned into “p2w players want to nerf everything” and vica versa, and it’s honestly not necessary. Nerfing stuff is correct if the monster is oppressive enough for it to be a disadvantage not to use it. Kong falls under that category, and zib is kinda on the line I think. Also to those that say nerfing zib would make him useless, as a fast entrance enabler he would still be unmatched. [Previous page](https://www.neomonstersforum.com/t/balance-changes-sorely-needed/5835.md?page=2)